{"language": "en", "segments": [{"text": " Okay, Lyle Johnson, WA7GXD, is joining us from Tucson.", "start": 0.0, "stop": 6.18, "id": 0}, {"text": " Lyle's been licensed since age 13.", "start": 8.3, "stop": 10.260000000000002, "id": 1}, {"text": " He's now in extra class.", "start": 10.78, "stop": 11.9, "id": 2}, {"text": " He must have been fond of that WA7 call and just held on to it.", "start": 13.36, "stop": 17.12, "id": 3}, {"text": " He's a life member of ARL and MSAT.", "start": 17.28, "stop": 19.86, "id": 4}, {"text": " He's a member of QCWA.", "start": 20.22, "stop": 22.18, "id": 5}, {"text": " He's co-founder of Tapper, Tucson Amateur Packet Radio, which he co", "start": 23.26, "stop": 29.3, "id": 6}, {"text": "-founded in 1981.", "start": 29.3, "stop": 30.94, "id": 7}, {"text": " And Tapper is basically what brought us the packet radio", "start": 33.66, "stop": 37.5, "id": 8}, {"text": " technology we all use today.", "start": 37.5, "stop": 39.24, "id": 9}, {"text": " From 1984 to 1991, he was a member of the ARL Digital Committee, and he's now a", "start": 40.22, "stop": 47.18, "id": 10}, {"text": " member of the ARL Future Systems Committee.", "start": 47.18, "stop": 49.72, "id": 11}, {"text": " In addition to his packet work, he designed the digital communications", "start": 52.36, "stop": 57.5, "id": 12}, {"text": " experiment on Oscar 11.", "start": 57.5, "stop": 59.02, "id": 13}, {"text": " He designed the computer units for the four microsats, which", "start": 60.74, "stop": 65.6, "id": 14}, {"text": " were launched January 1990.", "start": 65.6, "stop": 67.16, "id": 15}, {"text": " And he's now working on the Phase 3D Oscar project.", "start": 68.78, "stop": 71.98, "id": 16}, {"text": " At Tapper, he did the TNC1 hardware development.", "start": 75.92, "stop": 80.4, "id": 17}, {"text": " He was heavily involved in the TNC2.", "start": 81.14, "stop": 83.6, "id": 18}, {"text": " In fact, he was heavily involved in all Tapper projects.", "start": 83.6, "stop": 86.04, "id": 19}, {"text": " And he was involved in building the controller for the Getaway Special", "start": 88.06, "stop": 91.96, "id": 20}, {"text": " Shuttle Experiment, 1985.", "start": 91.96, "stop": 94.0, "id": 21}, {"text": " In 1984, at the Dayton Hamvention, he was awarded the first ever Technical", "start": 97.08, "stop": 103.46, "id": 22}, {"text": " Excellence Award for TNC development.", "start": 103.46, "stop": 106.52, "id": 23}, {"text": " Weil works for Modular Mining Systems, which does computerized dispatching and", "start": 109.04, "stop": 113.78, "id": 24}, {"text": " management of mines, using packet technology, among other things.", "start": 113.78, "stop": 119.34, "id": 25}, {"text": " And he is now Vice President of Hardware Engineering.", "start": 120.34, "stop": 122.88, "id": 26}, {"text": " And also Modular Mining provided Tapper with many facilities and", "start": 124.12, "stop": 128.28, "id": 27}, {"text": " financial support.", "start": 128.28, "stop": 130.02, "id": 28}, {"text": " Weil, welcome to the show.", "start": 131.8, "stop": 132.72, "id": 29}, {"text": " Thanks very much, Sean. It's a real privilege to be here today.", "start": 133.08, "stop": 135.56, "id": 30}, {"text": " Well, we've got a lot of stuff to talk about today.", "start": 136.54, "stop": 139.36, "id": 31}, {"text": " So let's start with, why don't you tell us a little bit about packet radio,", "start": 141.04, "stop": 145.42, "id": 32}, {"text": " Tapper, where it came from, why it appeared, and go from there.", "start": 145.74, "stop": 151.0, "id": 33}, {"text": " Okay. Essentially, packet radio is a communications technique where we try and", "start": 152.12, "stop": 158.62, "id": 34}, {"text": " tie computers together using radio lines rather than telephone modems, as most", "start": 158.62, "stop": 163.6, "id": 35}, {"text": " computer people would tend to use.", "start": 163.6, "stop": 165.14, "id": 36}, {"text": " The real intent here, of course, is to tie the people together that are at the", "start": 166.56, "stop": 170.2, "id": 37}, {"text": " computers as opposed to the computers themselves.", "start": 170.2, "stop": 172.4, "id": 38}, {"text": " Packet radio was first brought to the amateur consciousness, I guess I could say,", "start": 173.9, "stop": 178.94, "id": 39}, {"text": " in the late 1970s, when the Canadian Department of Communications set aside some", "start": 179.22, "stop": 184.68, "id": 40}, {"text": " frequencies for packet radio use.", "start": 184.68, "stop": 186.42, "id": 41}, {"text": " This immediately raised the question in Canada, what's packet radio?", "start": 187.08, "stop": 190.08, "id": 42}, {"text": " And it caused some people to start digging into it and find out.", "start": 190.08, "stop": 192.56, "id": 43}, {"text": " In the United States, packet activity didn't begin until late 1980 when Hank", "start": 194.22, "stop": 200.1, "id": 44}, {"text": " Magnuski, KA6M, in the San Francisco Bay Area, decided that the communications", "start": 200.1, "stop": 206.52, "id": 45}, {"text": " techniques that we were using for packet were close enough to another computer", "start": 206.52, "stop": 210.74, "id": 46}, {"text": " code that's called ASCII, which had been legalized by the FCC in 1977 in the", "start": 210.74, "stop": 215.48, "id": 47}, {"text": " United States, that he went ahead and put some packet radio equipment on the air.", "start": 215.48, "stop": 218.82, "id": 48}, {"text": " In 1982, I'm sorry, in 1981, October of 1981, QST, which is", "start": 221.5, "stop": 227.44, "id": 49}, {"text": " the premier amateur publication in the United States, published an article", "start": 227.44, "stop": 233.06, "id": 50}, {"text": " written by two gentlemen, Paul Amaldo and Dave Borden, describing", "start": 233.06, "stop": 239.7, "id": 51}, {"text": " amateur packet radio technology at that time.", "start": 239.7, "stop": 242.1, "id": 52}, {"text": " At that time, the people that were sort of leading this revolution, if you will,", "start": 242.58, "stop": 247.8, "id": 53}, {"text": " in amateur radio, were based in Vancouver, and they sold a small kit board that", "start": 248.0, "stop": 252.08, "id": 54}, {"text": " all together would cost about $400 plus a radio to connect to the computer that", "start": 252.08, "stop": 258.22, "id": 55}, {"text": " one would assume that you had and go on the air.", "start": 258.22, "stop": 261.94, "id": 56}, {"text": " In November of 1981, a fellow from Tucson named Dan Connors made a presentation", "start": 262.98, "stop": 269.54, "id": 57}, {"text": " to the IEEE Computer Society, where he described packet radio techniques.", "start": 269.54, "stop": 274.92, "id": 58}, {"text": " A friend of mine was there and said, Lyle, you've got to meet Dan.", "start": 275.64, "stop": 278.04, "id": 59}, {"text": " So he arranged a meeting, and from that meeting, we decided to form a local group", "start": 278.74, "stop": 284.68, "id": 60}, {"text": " here in Tucson that we called Tucson Amateur Packet Radio, or TAPR, with the", "start": 284.68, "stop": 288.84, "id": 61}, {"text": " express purpose of getting a few guys on", "start": 288.84, "stop": 290.8, "id": 62}, {"text": " the air locally to play around with this.", "start": 290.8, "stop": 292.32, "id": 63}, {"text": " We analyzed the cost of getting on the air and thought that $400 was just an", "start": 294.08, "stop": 298.26, "id": 64}, {"text": " awful lot of money, and we decided that we could design something and produce it", "start": 298.26, "stop": 303.32, "id": 65}, {"text": " for about $125 that would do essentially the same thing.", "start": 303.32, "stop": 307.62, "id": 66}, {"text": " So we got involved in our first project then.", "start": 308.36, "stop": 310.94, "id": 67}, {"text": " In early 1982, the local club had grown to about 25 members,", "start": 311.68, "stop": 316.92, "id": 68}, {"text": " and we went ahead with this project.", "start": 317.52, "stop": 319.22, "id": 69}, {"text": " In June of 1982, we went to the ARLR Southwestern Division Convention in San", "start": 320.42, "stop": 325.82, "id": 70}, {"text": " Diego, and we gave a couple of talks about packet radio.", "start": 325.82, "stop": 329.8, "id": 71}, {"text": " The interest was just phenomenal, John.", "start": 331.2, "stop": 333.18, "id": 72}, {"text": " We ran extra sessions.", "start": 333.44, "stop": 334.94, "id": 73}, {"text": " We took extra rooms in the hotel.", "start": 335.14, "stop": 336.48, "id": 74}, {"text": " It just almost got out of hand.", "start": 336.82, "stop": 338.48, "id": 75}, {"text": " We incorporated TAPR at that time, and we signed on members.", "start": 339.28999999999996, "stop": 343.5, "id": 76}, {"text": " In California, we came back from that convention with about 150 members, and", "start": 344.5, "stop": 349.58, "id": 77}, {"text": " people were just really interested in this technology.", "start": 349.58, "stop": 352.26, "id": 78}, {"text": " So what do you attribute that interest?", "start": 353.12, "stop": 354.98, "id": 79}, {"text": " Why was everybody so excited?", "start": 355.78, "stop": 357.26, "id": 80}, {"text": " I think it was just the idea of being able to do something new and to marry", "start": 357.76, "stop": 362.44, "id": 81}, {"text": " computer technology into amateur radio. 1981 is when IBM announced their PC.", "start": 362.44, "stop": 368.36, "id": 82}, {"text": " In the late 70s, there were what we call CPM systems available.", "start": 368.7, "stop": 371.9, "id": 83}, {"text": " But these were, how could I say it, the personal computer was just starting to", "start": 372.84, "stop": 377.6, "id": 84}, {"text": " become affordable and just starting to enter into the, shall we say, the shacks", "start": 377.6, "stop": 383.54, "id": 85}, {"text": " of the technical people within amateur radio at this time.", "start": 383.54, "stop": 386.06, "id": 86}, {"text": " And in Southern California, of course, there are a lot", "start": 386.54, "stop": 388.66, "id": 87}, {"text": " of people that are technically oriented.", "start": 388.66, "stop": 390.2, "id": 88}, {"text": " So I think it was just the right thing at the right time, if you will.", "start": 390.2, "stop": 395.38, "id": 89}, {"text": " Well, let me ask you this.", "start": 397.44, "stop": 399.0, "id": 90}, {"text": " You could already use RTTY.", "start": 399.1, "stop": 400.8, "id": 91}, {"text": " That's Teletype.", "start": 401.08, "stop": 401.86, "id": 92}, {"text": " Hook your computer to that.", "start": 402.38, "stop": 403.5, "id": 93}, {"text": " What was it about packet that excited people?", "start": 403.62, "stop": 405.88, "id": 94}, {"text": " Because it's clear it generated a tremendous amount of excitement.", "start": 406.02, "stop": 408.98, "id": 95}, {"text": " Right.", "start": 409.32, "stop": 409.7, "id": 96}, {"text": " Well, the difference between packet radio and other digital techniques, such as", "start": 410.3, "stop": 415.36, "id": 97}, {"text": " radio teletype or even CW Morse code, is that the way the data is actually sent,", "start": 415.36, "stop": 421.94, "id": 98}, {"text": " with packet radio, you're actually encapsulating the data.", "start": 422.96, "stop": 426.16, "id": 99}, {"text": " You might think of it like if you mail a letter to a friend where you actually", "start": 426.74, "stop": 430.8, "id": 100}, {"text": " write the information down on a piece of paper, you seal it up, put it in an", "start": 430.8, "stop": 433.52, "id": 101}, {"text": " envelope, put an address on there and a return address, put it in the mailbox,", "start": 433.52, "stop": 437.02, "id": 102}, {"text": " and you have some degree of confidence, at least in this country, that it's going", "start": 437.66, "stop": 441.14, "id": 103}, {"text": " to get to the destination that it's intended for.", "start": 441.14, "stop": 443.08, "id": 104}, {"text": " Packet radio is very much the same way.", "start": 443.58, "stop": 445.46, "id": 105}, {"text": " We take the data that you're sending, it might be a sentence that says, hey, Joe,", "start": 445.72, "stop": 448.92, "id": 106}, {"text": " meet me at the pizza place at 8 o'clock tonight.", "start": 449.0, "stop": 450.72, "id": 107}, {"text": " We encapsulate that information and we frame it, the technical term that we use,", "start": 451.88, "stop": 457.5, "id": 108}, {"text": " and we compute a unique number that's related to the", "start": 457.88, "stop": 462.16, "id": 109}, {"text": " information that's in the message.", "start": 462.16, "stop": 464.0, "id": 110}, {"text": " We then put the call sign of the sending station and the call sign of the", "start": 464.76, "stop": 468.54, "id": 111}, {"text": " receiving station, and we send this out as one quick burst of information.", "start": 468.54, "stop": 472.14, "id": 112}, {"text": " This information is received by the distant station.", "start": 474.26, "stop": 476.92, "id": 113}, {"text": " It looks to see that it's in fact addressed to it,", "start": 477.48, "stop": 479.8, "id": 114}, {"text": " and if it's not, it can ignore the data.", "start": 479.8, "stop": 481.36, "id": 115}, {"text": " If it is addressed to the station, then it unwraps the envelope, if you will,", "start": 481.48, "stop": 485.5, "id": 116}, {"text": " compares this frame check sequence, this integrity check, and if that integrity", "start": 485.9, "stop": 490.44, "id": 117}, {"text": " check matches, it says, this data is good.", "start": 490.44, "stop": 492.6, "id": 118}, {"text": " It didn't get corrupted.", "start": 492.7, "stop": 493.56, "id": 119}, {"text": " There wasn't noise that damaged this signal.", "start": 493.68, "stop": 496.7, "id": 120}, {"text": " The data that I have now received is in fact", "start": 496.7, "stop": 498.7, "id": 121}, {"text": " exactly the same as the data that was sent.", "start": 498.7, "stop": 500.46, "id": 122}, {"text": " That station will then automatically send an acknowledgement back to the sending", "start": 500.94, "stop": 504.5, "id": 123}, {"text": " station that it received the letter, so it's", "start": 504.5, "stop": 506.56, "id": 124}, {"text": " kind of like certified mail, if you will.", "start": 506.56, "stop": 508.1, "id": 125}, {"text": " The advantage to this is just like if you go down to your post office and dump a", "start": 508.38, "stop": 511.94, "id": 126}, {"text": " letter in the mailbox along with hundreds of other letters, it", "start": 511.94, "stop": 514.5, "id": 127}, {"text": " doesn't matter that there's hundreds of other letters.", "start": 514.5, "stop": 516.22, "id": 128}, {"text": " Yours is going to go where it's supposed to go.", "start": 516.3, "stop": 517.9, "id": 129}, {"text": " With packet radio, by virtue of this addressing technique, we allow a number of", "start": 518.38, "stop": 522.96, "id": 130}, {"text": " stations to use the same frequency, essentially simultaneously.", "start": 522.96, "stop": 527.1, "id": 131}, {"text": " So we have great spectrum efficiency, what we would call spectrum efficiency, to", "start": 527.6, "stop": 531.96, "id": 132}, {"text": " the use of spectrum reuse.", "start": 531.96, "stop": 533.86, "id": 133}, {"text": " That means that the stations automatically sort of queue up and take", "start": 534.48, "stop": 537.58, "id": 134}, {"text": " turns sending their data back and forth.", "start": 537.58, "stop": 539.26, "id": 135}, {"text": " With RTTY, or rather more conventional mode of data communications, a station", "start": 540.5600000000001, "stop": 545.24, "id": 136}, {"text": " transmits the data typically at a very slow rate and sort of ties up that channel", "start": 545.24, "stop": 550.0, "id": 137}, {"text": " for the entire duration of the transmission.", "start": 550.0, "stop": 551.96, "id": 138}, {"text": " If a fellow or a ham operator is just typing at their keyboard to send a message", "start": 551.96, "stop": 556.7, "id": 139}, {"text": " to the other station, while that person is pausing between keys, their", "start": 556.7, "stop": 560.86, "id": 140}, {"text": " transmitter is still occupying the frequency.", "start": 560.86, "stop": 562.6, "id": 141}, {"text": " With packet, because we wait until the frequency is clear, then send all of the", "start": 563.0, "stop": 566.7, "id": 142}, {"text": " information in one block very quickly, and then get off the frequency rapidly, we", "start": 566.7, "stop": 571.22, "id": 143}, {"text": " make the frequency available for a number of stations to use, as I say, the", "start": 571.22, "stop": 575.16, "id": 144}, {"text": " appearance of this is simultaneous usage of the frequency.", "start": 575.16, "stop": 578.06, "id": 145}, {"text": " Very good.", "start": 578.74, "stop": 579.6, "id": 146}, {"text": " I should mention that this is Ham Radio and More, and your host today is John", "start": 580.2, "stop": 584.76, "id": 147}, {"text": " Moore, filling in for Lynn.", "start": 584.76, "stop": 586.72, "id": 148}, {"text": " We also have Nick Seuss, W7ZMD here, and our guest, WA7GXD.", "start": 587.34, "stop": 592.02, "id": 149}, {"text": " If you wish to talk to our guest, you can call us at 230-2755,", "start": 592.74, "stop": 598.78, "id": 150}, {"text": " 230-2755, or 1-800-293-KFMN.", "start": 600.94, "stop": 607.48, "id": 151}, {"text": " We will have a trivia question a little bit later here, so you'll definitely", "start": 607.48, "stop": 613.1, "id": 152}, {"text": " want to stand by for that.", "start": 613.1, "stop": 614.6, "id": 153}, {"text": " We've got a commercial coming up here, our network break, in a few minutes, so I", "start": 616.0, "stop": 621.04, "id": 154}, {"text": " may have to cut you short here a little bit, but I wanted to ask you, what do you", "start": 621.04, "stop": 624.72, "id": 155}, {"text": " think, what was your impression when you guys started this little club, and it", "start": 624.72, "stop": 630.14, "id": 156}, {"text": " caught fire all over the world?", "start": 630.14, "stop": 632.16, "id": 157}, {"text": " As far as I know, today, almost everybody using packet is using stuff based", "start": 633.18, "stop": 637.28, "id": 158}, {"text": " on what you folks did.", "start": 637.28, "stop": 639.14, "id": 159}, {"text": " What did you think of that?", "start": 639.34, "stop": 640.04, "id": 160}, {"text": " Well, it's both amazing and gratifying.", "start": 640.48, "stop": 643.84, "id": 161}, {"text": " We started out as a local club thinking that we would do this in a corner.", "start": 644.9, "stop": 647.88, "id": 162}, {"text": " We made a big mistake, though.", "start": 648.44, "stop": 649.66, "id": 163}, {"text": " Dan Connors, KD2S, who was our first president, was a great person at promoting", "start": 650.54, "stop": 654.86, "id": 164}, {"text": " things, and he'd come from the east.", "start": 654.86, "stop": 656.68, "id": 165}, {"text": " He knew a lot of people back east, and he got us a column of what was called the", "start": 656.82, "stop": 659.76, "id": 166}, {"text": " Amrad newsletter, which was kind of a premier little newsletter", "start": 659.76, "stop": 662.72, "id": 167}, {"text": " amongst technical hands of the day.", "start": 662.72, "stop": 664.34, "id": 168}, {"text": " So everything that we were doing was being done in public with the", "start": 664.34, "stop": 668.7, "id": 169}, {"text": " spotlight focused brightly on us.", "start": 668.7, "stop": 670.4, "id": 170}, {"text": " As a result, we started getting inquiries from many, many places because we", "start": 671.32, "stop": 675.62, "id": 171}, {"text": " weren't just talking about doing packet radio, and we weren't just doing packet", "start": 675.62, "stop": 680.1, "id": 172}, {"text": " radio, but we were working and trying to make this technology available and", "start": 680.1, "stop": 683.68, "id": 173}, {"text": " affordable, and we did this under the auspices of the nonprofit organization,", "start": 683.68, "stop": 688.78, "id": 174}, {"text": " understanding that all of the engineering and development that went into this,", "start": 688.94, "stop": 691.82, "id": 175}, {"text": " thousands of man hours of hardware and software engineering time were all", "start": 692.24, "stop": 695.5, "id": 176}, {"text": " donated, and these people did this without any remuneration to themselves.", "start": 695.5, "stop": 700.6, "id": 177}, {"text": " Now, the thing that TAPR did that I think was very unique and I think really", "start": 701.52, "stop": 705.16, "id": 178}, {"text": " helped stimulate this interest and prove that the mode was viable was what we", "start": 705.16, "stop": 708.12, "id": 179}, {"text": " called our beta test, and this was in 1983 when we produced a couple of hundred", "start": 708.12, "stop": 714.18, "id": 180}, {"text": " boards, and we put them out in groups to different cities all over the country,", "start": 714.18, "stop": 719.06, "id": 181}, {"text": " and the idea was if we can give people working technology so they don't have to", "start": 719.06, "stop": 722.72, "id": 182}, {"text": " be technical people, can the average hand use this technology", "start": 722.72, "stop": 726.0, "id": 183}, {"text": " and can they have fun with it?", "start": 726.0, "stop": 727.72, "id": 184}, {"text": " The results of that test were a resounding yes, and as a result of that we had", "start": 728.38, "stop": 732.42, "id": 185}, {"text": " more demands placed upon us than we could possibly cope with, and that led to our", "start": 732.42, "stop": 737.0, "id": 186}, {"text": " TNC kits and the development of the TNC too.", "start": 737.0, "stop": 740.2, "id": 187}, {"text": " Very good.", "start": 741.86, "stop": 742.38, "id": 188}, {"text": " Now, at some point commercial operations started picking up on your", "start": 742.74, "stop": 747.6, "id": 189}, {"text": " technology, who was the first one?", "start": 747.6, "stop": 750.62, "id": 190}, {"text": " That was part of the game plan.", "start": 751.74, "stop": 753.32, "id": 191}, {"text": " What we were trying to do was get commercial interests really interested in", "start": 754.04, "stop": 757.82, "id": 192}, {"text": " taking the risk, the gamble of putting this out and thus legitimizing the mode by", "start": 757.82, "stop": 762.58, "id": 193}, {"text": " putting a recognized name associated with it.", "start": 762.58, "stop": 764.94, "id": 194}, {"text": " Our first what we called OEM agreement purchaser for the TNC-1 was AEA out of", "start": 765.22, "stop": 771.22, "id": 195}, {"text": " Seattle, Washington, and they took our TNC-1 design and created what they called", "start": 771.22, "stop": 775.06, "id": 196}, {"text": " a PKT-1, and that agreement was made between us at the AWRL Southwestern Division", "start": 775.06, "stop": 781.26, "id": 197}, {"text": " Convention in Anaheim, California in 1983.", "start": 781.26, "stop": 783.58, "id": 198}, {"text": " Very good, and AEA is one of our sponsors on this show,", "start": 784.9, "stop": 788.92, "id": 199}, {"text": " and we're glad to have them.", "start": 789.16, "stop": 790.74, "id": 200}, {"text": " Okay, yeah, it's commercial time, so we'll go for it.", "start": 794.5, "stop": 798.08, "id": 201}, {"text": " Nobody covers Arizona business like the Arizona business gazette.", "start": 799.54, "stop": 802.9, "id": 202}, {"text": " Each week smart executives read about the issues that affect their business,", "start": 802.9, "stop": 806.62, "id": 203}, {"text": " current topical news about today's business climate, the news", "start": 807.0, "stop": 810.02, "id": 204}, {"text": " you need to keep the edge in business.", "start": 810.02, "stop": 811.68, "id": 205}, {"text": " This week in the Arizona business gazette, find out if the King Holiday Campaign", "start": 812.04, "stop": 815.56, "id": 206}, {"text": " is losing steam or whether it will raise enough money", "start": 815.56, "stop": 818.24, "id": 207}, {"text": " to fund its ambitious campaign.", "start": 818.24, "stop": 819.94, "id": 208}, {"text": " Also read about Governor Simonson's summit meeting in Tucson on free trade to", "start": 820.32, "stop": 824.5, "id": 209}, {"text": " bring order to the splintered efforts of dozens of Arizona groups.", "start": 824.5, "stop": 827.44, "id": 210}, {"text": " And find out how Hughes Aircraft's decision on General Dynamics Missile Works", "start": 827.88, "stop": 831.62, "id": 211}, {"text": " could dramatically affect the Tucson job market.", "start": 831.62, "stop": 834.4, "id": 212}, {"text": " Whether you're a small business person, an entrepreneur, a corporate executive,", "start": 834.96, "stop": 838.2, "id": 213}, {"text": " or an attorney, the Arizona Business Gazette is a powerful tool of information.", "start": 838.36, "stop": 842.42, "id": 214}, {"text": " Subscribe today, and you can try it for free.", "start": 843.38, "stop": 845.18, "id": 215}, {"text": " That's right. 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That's 264", "start": 914.6, "stop": 920.34, "id": 222}, {"text": "-1234.", "start": 920.34, "stop": 922.18, "id": 223}, {"text": " I'm Tom Folks with Computing Success, hands-on computing", "start": 923.7, "stop": 926.86, "id": 224}, {"text": " topics and run-time reviews.", "start": 926.86, "stop": 928.44, "id": 225}, {"text": " Sundays at 2-1 Financial News Radio, 1510 AMK FNN.", "start": 929.12, "stop": 932.5, "id": 226}, {"text": " You're listening to Hand Radio and More on KFNN.", "start": 935.32, "stop": 939.68, "id": 227}, {"text": " If you'd like to join in the conversation, call 230-2755. That's", "start": 939.68, "stop": 946.38, "id": 228}, {"text": " 230-2755.", "start": 946.38, "stop": 949.08, "id": 229}, {"text": " Or outside the local viling area, call 1-800-293-KFNN.", "start": 949.5, "stop": 955.92, "id": 230}, {"text": " Now, with more about amateur radio, here's your host, Len Winkler.", "start": 956.72, "stop": 961.72, "id": 231}, {"text": " Good afternoon, and this is John Moore filling in for Len.", "start": 963.38, "stop": 966.96, "id": 232}, {"text": " Our guest today is WA7GXD, Lyle Johnson.", "start": 966.96, "stop": 971.96, "id": 233}, {"text": " One of the technical innovators in Hand Radio, one of the many parts of the Hand", "start": 972.84, "stop": 978.38, "id": 234}, {"text": " Radio hobby, is technical innovation.", "start": 978.38, "stop": 981.48, "id": 235}, {"text": " Some people do almost nothing else. They don't get on the air and talk.", "start": 982.7600000000001, "stop": 987.7, "id": 236}, {"text": " They just sit in their little cubicles and hack with their computers", "start": 987.84, "stop": 991.16, "id": 237}, {"text": " and generally have a good time.", "start": 991.16, "stop": 992.74, "id": 238}, {"text": " I don't know if Lyle gets on the radio and talks, but he certainly does a lot of", "start": 992.74, "stop": 997.44, "id": 239}, {"text": " hacking and designing and stuff.", "start": 997.44, "stop": 999.02, "id": 240}, {"text": " So we'll get back to him here.", "start": 999.38, "stop": 1001.72, "id": 241}, {"text": " Lyle, how different is the way packet radio has evolved in the usage of it than", "start": 1003.2, "stop": 1009.48, "id": 242}, {"text": " what you guys thought about, or did you even think about the", "start": 1009.48, "stop": 1012.48, "id": 243}, {"text": " evolution of it when you got started?", "start": 1012.48, "stop": 1014.08, "id": 244}, {"text": " Well, John, when we got started, we were just thinking in terms of having some", "start": 1014.6, "stop": 1020.72, "id": 245}, {"text": " equipment for a local group of people, and we assumed that other people", "start": 1020.72, "stop": 1023.84, "id": 246}, {"text": " would take the ball and run with it.", "start": 1023.84, "stop": 1025.4, "id": 247}, {"text": " As events transpired and it turned out that we were going to be the ball carrier,", "start": 1025.98, "stop": 1029.74, "id": 248}, {"text": " we just sort of shifted gears and accepted that responsibility, I guess, as the", "start": 1030.34, "stop": 1034.4, "id": 249}, {"text": " best way to put it, and we just started running", "start": 1034.4, "stop": 1036.54, "id": 250}, {"text": " with the ball as fast as we could go.", "start": 1036.54, "stop": 1038.08, "id": 251}, {"text": " We hoped that packet radio might ultimately penetrate maybe 5%", "start": 1040.9399999999998, "stop": 1047.5, "id": 252}, {"text": " of the amateur radio community in terms of individuals or stations.", "start": 1047.5, "stop": 1052.14, "id": 253}, {"text": " I think the number is much, much larger than that today.", "start": 1053.04, "stop": 1055.68, "id": 254}, {"text": " We've certainly been gratified and overwhelmed, and I think, again, it just", "start": 1056.08, "stop": 1059.72, "id": 255}, {"text": " points out that the packet radio systems that have evolved have been because", "start": 1059.72, "stop": 1064.96, "id": 256}, {"text": " there was a need, there was a vacuum, and this happened to be", "start": 1064.96, "stop": 1068.88, "id": 257}, {"text": " the right thing to fill that space.", "start": 1068.88, "stop": 1070.42, "id": 258}, {"text": " I don't think it was that packet radio was so terribly unique or that we did such", "start": 1070.6, "stop": 1074.38, "id": 259}, {"text": " an overly wonderful job.", "start": 1074.38, "stop": 1076.32, "id": 260}, {"text": " I think it was that there was a need and it was the right", "start": 1076.68, "stop": 1079.94, "id": 261}, {"text": " technology to fill that need at the time.", "start": 1079.94, "stop": 1081.66, "id": 262}, {"text": " Where did the term packet come from?", "start": 1082.96, "stop": 1084.56, "id": 263}, {"text": " That's a good question.", "start": 1085.96, "stop": 1087.02, "id": 264}, {"text": " I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that the term oriented back with the", "start": 1087.74, "stop": 1092.8, "id": 265}, {"text": " University of Hawaii and their programs in the late 60s, 30s, 70s, where they", "start": 1092.8, "stop": 1097.72, "id": 266}, {"text": " tried to tie the various islands campuses together by packet radio techniques,", "start": 1097.72, "stop": 1102.76, "id": 267}, {"text": " and it maybe originated there a little while.", "start": 1103.94, "stop": 1105.8, "id": 268}, {"text": " I have to admit I'm not sure.", "start": 1106.26, "stop": 1107.3, "id": 269}, {"text": " That's the Aloha Network.", "start": 1107.58, "stop": 1108.56, "id": 270}, {"text": " That's correct.", "start": 1108.8, "stop": 1109.3, "id": 271}, {"text": " [...]", "start": 1110.96, "stop": 1111.56, "id": 272}, {"text": " Well, nowadays, most packet users are not technical people.", "start": 1112.22, "stop": 1117.02, "id": 273}, {"text": " They're ordinary hands.", "start": 1117.18, "stop": 1118.58, "id": 274}, {"text": " They use it to chat with each other.", "start": 1119.48, "stop": 1121.5, "id": 275}, {"text": " They use it on bulletin boards, exchange messages worldwide.", "start": 1121.66, "stop": 1125.28, "id": 276}, {"text": " They use it for traffic handling.", "start": 1125.58, "stop": 1126.88, "id": 277}, {"text": " What do you think of that?", "start": 1128.72, "stop": 1130.02, "id": 278}, {"text": " It's moved out of the technical world.", "start": 1130.28, "stop": 1132.52, "id": 279}, {"text": " It's in the hands of people who really don't know how it works.", "start": 1132.72, "stop": 1137.64, "id": 280}, {"text": " Go ahead.", "start": 1139.1200000000001, "stop": 1140.24, "id": 281}, {"text": " I'm sorry.", "start": 1140.76, "stop": 1140.92, "id": 282}, {"text": " I think it's a very good thing.", "start": 1141.26, "stop": 1142.7, "id": 283}, {"text": " I'm very pleased and gratified by that as well.", "start": 1142.94, "stop": 1145.48, "id": 284}, {"text": " I understand that when we started as TAPR back in the early 80s, the Vancouver", "start": 1146.44, "stop": 1152.74, "id": 285}, {"text": " Digital Group was still a very viable group, and they were still doing", "start": 1152.74, "stop": 1155.96, "id": 286}, {"text": " technologically innovative things.", "start": 1155.96, "stop": 1157.72, "id": 287}, {"text": " And people were telling us we were focusing on the least", "start": 1160.68, "stop": 1164.04, "id": 288}, {"text": " common denominator and things like that.", "start": 1164.04, "stop": 1165.84, "id": 289}, {"text": " But I think that because we tried to focus on making equipment that was reliable", "start": 1165.84, "stop": 1172.0, "id": 290}, {"text": " and reproducible and affordable, rather than simply focusing on how can we tweak", "start": 1172.0, "stop": 1177.04, "id": 291}, {"text": " this to get the last entry degree of performance out of it, because of that", "start": 1177.04, "stop": 1181.04, "id": 292}, {"text": " emphasis, I believe that's one of the reasons that packet radio has become", "start": 1181.04, "stop": 1185.08, "id": 293}, {"text": " as widely adopted as it has.", "start": 1185.08, "stop": 1186.8, "id": 294}, {"text": " Some of our first people that got involved in purchasing our kits and using them", "start": 1187.54, "stop": 1192.92, "id": 295}, {"text": " to put networks together was the Red Cross in California", "start": 1192.92, "stop": 1196.42, "id": 296}, {"text": " that bought literally hundreds of units.", "start": 1196.42, "stop": 1198.02, "id": 297}, {"text": " In fact, they were used in the 1984 Olympics for some of the Olympic games.", "start": 1199.5, "stop": 1203.16, "id": 298}, {"text": " There were time limits when an event happened and a score had to be recorded at", "start": 1203.56, "stop": 1207.28, "id": 299}, {"text": " the official place, and TAPR packet equipment was actually used for some of that", "start": 1207.28, "stop": 1211.62, "id": 300}, {"text": " with the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984.", "start": 1211.62, "stop": 1213.86, "id": 301}, {"text": " One of the things that I personally had hoped would be that at some point in its", "start": 1214.6, "stop": 1218.26, "id": 302}, {"text": " development that packet would become ubiquitous enough that it would be involved", "start": 1218.26, "stop": 1222.46, "id": 303}, {"text": " in emergency traffic handling and the saving of lives.", "start": 1222.46, "stop": 1224.82, "id": 304}, {"text": " I believe that that's happened with the Mexico City earthquake and with many", "start": 1225.72, "stop": 1229.24, "id": 305}, {"text": " other natural disasters where packet radio equipped ham radio stations have been", "start": 1229.24, "stop": 1233.24, "id": 306}, {"text": " available to provide emergency communications when and where it was needed during", "start": 1233.24, "stop": 1238.28, "id": 307}, {"text": " forest fires in California and all sorts of other things.", "start": 1238.28, "stop": 1241.34, "id": 308}, {"text": " So it's been very gratifying to me.", "start": 1242.18, "stop": 1243.56, "id": 309}, {"text": " I think that in the amateur world, the number of people that are actually", "start": 1244.26, "stop": 1248.32, "id": 310}, {"text": " technically oriented are a very small percentage, and I think that the more that", "start": 1248.32, "stop": 1253.9, "id": 311}, {"text": " these technological developments that occur within amateur radio can be injected", "start": 1253.9, "stop": 1258.34, "id": 312}, {"text": " into the mainstream of amateur radio so that the amateur community as a whole can", "start": 1258.34, "stop": 1262.24, "id": 313}, {"text": " benefit from it, the better off the quality.", "start": 1262.24, "stop": 1263.84, "id": 314}, {"text": " Well, I certainly agree with you, and I think the ham radio community owes you", "start": 1264.54, "stop": 1270.48, "id": 315}, {"text": " and the TAPR volunteers a lot of gratitude for having brought that technology to", "start": 1270.48, "stop": 1276.12, "id": 316}, {"text": " us and having donated all that time and money to do it.", "start": 1276.12, "stop": 1279.5, "id": 317}, {"text": " Well, as you said earlier, there are some people that just blame their cubicles", "start": 1280.76, "stop": 1284.58, "id": 318}, {"text": " and have fun, and other people that get on the radio and chat and have fun.", "start": 1284.58, "stop": 1287.82, "id": 319}, {"text": " I guess I'm one of the people that spends more time in the cubicle than on the", "start": 1288.72, "stop": 1292.36, "id": 320}, {"text": " air, but one of the wonderful things about ham radio is that it's such a broad", "start": 1292.36, "stop": 1296.94, "id": 321}, {"text": "-based hobby, and it offers so many facets that people from all kinds of", "start": 1296.94, "stop": 1303.16, "id": 322}, {"text": " backgrounds can have this common interest and just have one more thread to sort", "start": 1303.16, "stop": 1307.5, "id": 323}, {"text": " of show the fabric of all the diverse and wonderful things that our country has", "start": 1307.5, "stop": 1312.86, "id": 324}, {"text": " and just one more thing to help bring it together.", "start": 1312.86, "stop": 1315.14, "id": 325}, {"text": " Well, I agree with that, and I think that is one of the", "start": 1315.82, "stop": 1319.28, "id": 326}, {"text": " wonderful things about the hobby.", "start": 1319.28, "stop": 1320.92, "id": 327}, {"text": " And on the emergency use, I know that packet's getting very popular for that.", "start": 1323.1, "stop": 1329.04, "id": 328}, {"text": " I also, from talking to a friend of mine who manufactures packet equipment back", "start": 1329.04, "stop": 1334.2, "id": 329}, {"text": " in Kansas, understand that this amateur packet technology is now being sold in", "start": 1334.2, "stop": 1340.06, "id": 330}, {"text": " vast numbers to non-amateur users, military,", "start": 1340.06, "stop": 1345.54, "id": 331}, {"text": " commercial, overseas people of all sorts.", "start": 1346.04, "stop": 1349.94, "id": 332}, {"text": " Yeah, that's very true.", "start": 1351.16, "stop": 1352.7, "id": 333}, {"text": " I know at the TAPR annual meeting that we had earlier in March this year, we had", "start": 1353.04, "stop": 1356.82, "id": 334}, {"text": " a fellow came from some agency in Washington, and he", "start": 1356.82, "stop": 1363.2, "id": 335}, {"text": " gave a little talk and told us how during Operation Desert Storm that actually", "start": 1363.2, "stop": 1368.88, "id": 336}, {"text": " militarized versions of TAPR TMC2s were used for what they call fin route", "start": 1368.88, "stop": 1373.4, "id": 337}, {"text": " communications and the front lines of the battlefield in order to help coordinate", "start": 1373.4, "stop": 1377.86, "id": 338}, {"text": " some of the activities that were going on there.", "start": 1377.86, "stop": 1380.42, "id": 339}, {"text": " And that must give you quite a feeling to hear stuff like that.", "start": 1381.82, "stop": 1384.8, "id": 340}, {"text": " Yeah, it's really interesting to me.", "start": 1384.8, "stop": 1387.44, "id": 341}, {"text": " As we said earlier, we OEM'd the designs that we had out to various companies,", "start": 1388.38, "stop": 1392.76, "id": 342}, {"text": " and we did this very, very cheaply because we wanted to expose the technology to", "start": 1392.88, "stop": 1397.2, "id": 343}, {"text": " the largest possible audience.", "start": 1397.2, "stop": 1398.8, "id": 344}, {"text": " And it was interesting that one of these companies licensed these devices, and", "start": 1399.68, "stop": 1404.96, "id": 345}, {"text": " they took these kits that we sold in 1985 for $185, and today you can go down to", "start": 1404.96, "stop": 1410.2, "id": 346}, {"text": " your local ham radio store and pick up for under $125.", "start": 1410.2, "stop": 1413.6, "id": 347}, {"text": " And your tax dollars at work allow your tax dollars to buy these things for an", "start": 1414.94, "stop": 1419.02, "id": 348}, {"text": " excess of $12,000 because they're militarized.", "start": 1419.02, "stop": 1421.44, "id": 349}, {"text": " That's sad, isn't it?", "start": 1425.54, "stop": 1428.02, "id": 350}, {"text": " Yeah, I know how that goes.", "start": 1430.1, "stop": 1432.46, "id": 351}, {"text": " Okay, let's talk, let's get into some other aspects here.", "start": 1433.98, "stop": 1440.78, "id": 352}, {"text": " Local networks, one of the main things in packet radio that we see today are", "start": 1442.74, "stop": 1448.34, "id": 353}, {"text": " urban area networks, I guess you'd call them.", "start": 1448.34, "stop": 1451.42, "id": 354}, {"text": " And we don't have a lot of frequencies for these because the repeaters", "start": 1452.8, "stop": 1456.5, "id": 355}, {"text": " got the frequencies first.", "start": 1456.5, "stop": 1458.02, "id": 356}, {"text": " And this results in some problems, and I wanted to ask you just", "start": 1459.42, "stop": 1463.02, "id": 357}, {"text": " your thoughts on these.", "start": 1463.02, "stop": 1464.6, "id": 358}, {"text": " First of all, could you explain to people what the hidden transmitter problem is?", "start": 1466.8200000000002, "stop": 1470.76, "id": 359}, {"text": " Sure. As I mentioned earlier, the way that a packet station works is you put", "start": 1471.58, "stop": 1477.96, "id": 360}, {"text": " information into the computer, which then goes into this packet radio", "start": 1477.96, "stop": 1481.7, "id": 361}, {"text": " controller, or TNC as we call it.", "start": 1481.7, "stop": 1483.86, "id": 362}, {"text": " And the TNC is supposed to be smart enough to listen on the frequency and ensure", "start": 1483.86, "stop": 1489.48, "id": 363}, {"text": " that no other transmissions are occurring before it jumps on the frequency, sends", "start": 1489.48, "stop": 1493.38, "id": 364}, {"text": " your information, and quickly gets back off.", "start": 1493.38, "stop": 1495.26, "id": 365}, {"text": " In order for this to work, the TNC has to have the ability to hear the other", "start": 1495.84, "stop": 1501.94, "id": 366}, {"text": " stations that are in the area that it might possibly interfere with.", "start": 1501.94, "stop": 1505.58, "id": 367}, {"text": " Now, you run into a problem if you have, say, I have a transmitter and I'm", "start": 1507.12, "stop": 1513.08, "id": 368}, {"text": " located in a valley.", "start": 1513.08, "stop": 1514.88, "id": 369}, {"text": " And there's the station I'm trying to talk to that's up a little bit on a hill,", "start": 1515.62, "stop": 1518.6, "id": 370}, {"text": " and there's a station down in the adjacent valley that's also on the same", "start": 1518.98, "stop": 1522.58, "id": 371}, {"text": " frequency wanting to talk to that station on the hill.", "start": 1522.58, "stop": 1524.64, "id": 372}, {"text": " Now, the station on the hill can hear both of us, but if he's trying to send a", "start": 1525.16, "stop": 1527.94, "id": 373}, {"text": " transmission out and the fellow in the distant valley is transmitting,", "start": 1527.94, "stop": 1531.44, "id": 374}, {"text": " he'll defer his transmission until he's done.", "start": 1531.74, "stop": 1533.46, "id": 375}, {"text": " On the other hand, if at the same time I want to transmit to that station on the", "start": 1533.46, "stop": 1537.14, "id": 376}, {"text": " hill, I can't hear the station in the other valley,", "start": 1537.14, "stop": 1539.3, "id": 377}, {"text": " so I'll transmit at the same time.", "start": 1539.48, "stop": 1541.12, "id": 378}, {"text": " In packet radio parlance, we call this a collision.", "start": 1541.7, "stop": 1543.74, "id": 379}, {"text": " And the result of a collision is that, or how I detect that a collision may have", "start": 1546.24, "stop": 1550.6, "id": 380}, {"text": " occurred is that my unit says, I sent this transmission to the station on the", "start": 1550.6, "stop": 1554.18, "id": 381}, {"text": " hill, but it didn't acknowledge the receipt of that transmission.", "start": 1554.18, "stop": 1556.84, "id": 382}, {"text": " Now, I don't really know why he didn't acknowledge it, so what I have to assume,", "start": 1556.84, "stop": 1561.74, "id": 383}, {"text": " because I don't know, is the worst.", "start": 1561.84, "stop": 1563.36, "id": 384}, {"text": " And the worst in this case is another station that I can't hear was transmitting.", "start": 1563.86, "stop": 1567.88, "id": 385}, {"text": " So the way that I try and get around this problem is I say, okay, I'm going to", "start": 1568.52, "stop": 1573.76, "id": 386}, {"text": " wait a little while here and I'll pick a random number.", "start": 1573.76, "stop": 1576.6, "id": 387}, {"text": " And after some random number of seconds, I will then attempt to", "start": 1577.1, "stop": 1581.08, "id": 388}, {"text": " resend that data again.", "start": 1581.08, "stop": 1582.6, "id": 389}, {"text": " And I'll do this some certain number of times, and if I still just can't get an", "start": 1582.6, "stop": 1586.84, "id": 390}, {"text": " acknowledgment back, then I'll notify the computer that I'm attached to that I'm", "start": 1586.84, "stop": 1591.12, "id": 391}, {"text": " just unable to communicate with the station at this time.", "start": 1591.12, "stop": 1593.24, "id": 392}, {"text": " Now, a hidden transmitter causes a degradation in what we call the throughput.", "start": 1594.38, "stop": 1600.52, "id": 393}, {"text": " That is the efficiency of the utilization of the channel.", "start": 1600.74, "stop": 1603.06, "id": 394}, {"text": " In many parts of the country, this is a real problem.", "start": 1604.76, "stop": 1607.48, "id": 395}, {"text": " What we did here in Tucson early on when we started to design our local network,", "start": 1607.48, "stop": 1613.0, "id": 396}, {"text": " we thought the best way to avoid the problem with", "start": 1613.48, "stop": 1618.42, "id": 397}, {"text": " hidden transmitters is to not have them.", "start": 1618.42, "stop": 1620.0, "id": 398}, {"text": " And that sounds very simplistic, but then the question comes up,", "start": 1620.66, "stop": 1623.3, "id": 399}, {"text": " well, how do you not have a hidden transmitter?", "start": 1623.54, "stop": 1625.58, "id": 400}, {"text": " Surely there's going to be people that, while you can't hear from your station", "start": 1625.76, "stop": 1628.92, "id": 401}, {"text": " when they're trying to transmit on one of these", "start": 1628.92, "stop": 1630.88, "id": 402}, {"text": " few packet frequencies that are available.", "start": 1630.88, "stop": 1632.38, "id": 403}, {"text": " What we did was we coordinated a frequency for a mount-and-top repeater, and we", "start": 1632.38, "stop": 1636.92, "id": 404}, {"text": " put that repeater up on Mount Bigelow, which is in", "start": 1636.92, "stop": 1639.1, "id": 405}, {"text": " the Catalina here right next to Mount Lemmon.", "start": 1639.1, "stop": 1640.76, "id": 406}, {"text": " And this way, any station that's transmitting transmits just as if they were", "start": 1641.36, "stop": 1645.8, "id": 407}, {"text": " using the repeater for voice purposes.", "start": 1645.8, "stop": 1647.64, "id": 408}, {"text": " As a result of that, because the repeater is on the mount-and-top and it can hear", "start": 1648.18, "stop": 1651.52, "id": 409}, {"text": " all the stations that are going to be transmitting through it, we wind up", "start": 1651.52, "stop": 1655.0, "id": 410}, {"text": " avoiding this hidden transmitter problem to a large extent.", "start": 1655.0, "stop": 1657.54, "id": 411}, {"text": " We did the same thing here in Phoenix.", "start": 1657.54, "stop": 1660.2, "id": 412}, {"text": " The Phoenix packet repeater is a full-duplex repeater, so that as soon as", "start": 1660.5, "stop": 1666.46, "id": 413}, {"text": " somebody starts transmitting, it's heard by all", "start": 1666.46, "stop": 1670.84, "id": 414}, {"text": " stations, and that helps cut it down.", "start": 1670.84, "stop": 1672.78, "id": 415}, {"text": " We have to take a break, so we'll be back in a minute.", "start": 1673.72, "stop": 1677.52, "id": 416}, {"text": " This is John Moore in J-70, guest host of Ham Radio and Moore.", "start": 1679.7, "stop": 1684.76, "id": 417}, {"text": " And we have Lyle Johnson as our guest, W-A7GXD, and we're talking about packet,", "start": 1686.1399999999999, "stop": 1693.12, "id": 418}, {"text": " and we're going to talk about other advanced technologies.", "start": 1693.42, "stop": 1695.98, "id": 419}, {"text": " We also have a caller we'll get to in a minute here.", "start": 1696.8, "stop": 1699.4, "id": 420}, {"text": " But first little business to take care of, we have a trivia question.", "start": 1700.58, "stop": 1705.0, "id": 421}, {"text": " Now, the first person to answer this question will win a", "start": 1706.96, "stop": 1710.94, "id": 422}, {"text": " beautiful Sun Drop t-shirt.", "start": 1710.94, "stop": 1712.62, "id": 423}, {"text": " Sun Drop is where the fun is in Arizona. It's Arizona's Goodwill Ambassador.", "start": 1712.62, "stop": 1717.18, "id": 424}, {"text": " Other states have raindrops, but Arizona has the Sun Drop.", "start": 1718.12, "stop": 1721.68, "id": 425}, {"text": " Call 275-7450 for more information.", "start": 1722.78, "stop": 1726.98, "id": 426}, {"text": " Sun Drop has lots of neat items you can purchase.", "start": 1727.86, "stop": 1730.4, "id": 427}, {"text": " Thank you, Sun Drop, for supporting Ham Radio and Moore.", "start": 1731.1, "stop": 1733.66, "id": 428}, {"text": " 275-7450.", "start": 1736.88, "stop": 1738.0, "id": 429}, {"text": " Okay, Lyle, you want to ask the trivia question here.", "start": 1739.78, "stop": 1744.02, "id": 430}, {"text": " Okay, John, the trivia question that I'd like to pose to the audience is, in what", "start": 1744.28, "stop": 1749.26, "id": 431}, {"text": " month were the first TAPR Beta TNC boards shipped?", "start": 1749.26, "stop": 1753.82, "id": 432}, {"text": " Okay, in what month were the first TAPR Beta TNC boards shipped?", "start": 1755.02, "stop": 1758.92, "id": 433}, {"text": " Our number is 230-2755, 230", "start": 1758.92, "stop": 1764.22, "id": 434}, {"text": "-2755, or 1-800-293", "start": 1764.22, "stop": 1770.44, "id": 435}, {"text": "-KFNN.", "start": 1770.44, "stop": 1772.04, "id": 436}, {"text": " Okay, at this point we'll go to John in Mesa. John, you there?", "start": 1773.24, "stop": 1778.4, "id": 437}, {"text": " Yes, here. Got a question.", "start": 1778.74, "stop": 1780.66, "id": 438}, {"text": " How does this signal go from one computer to another through ASCII code or Morse", "start": 1781.3, "stop": 1788.16, "id": 439}, {"text": " code, or through voice?", "start": 1788.16, "stop": 1789.76, "id": 440}, {"text": " Lyle, go for it.", "start": 1790.88, "stop": 1791.86, "id": 441}, {"text": " Okay, John, the way that packet radio does this is there's a device", "start": 1792.38, "stop": 1798.68, "id": 442}, {"text": " that attaches to your computer.", "start": 1798.68, "stop": 1800.28, "id": 443}, {"text": " It's called a TNC. To your computer, this TNC is the same as a modem.", "start": 1800.52, "stop": 1804.74, "id": 444}, {"text": " So your computer talks to the TNC usually using the ASCII code.", "start": 1805.64, "stop": 1809.84, "id": 445}, {"text": " The TNC then modifies that code to suit its purposes, as I mentioned earlier, to", "start": 1810.7, "stop": 1816.32, "id": 446}, {"text": " put the stations sending address, the receive stations, call sign.", "start": 1816.32, "stop": 1820.06, "id": 447}, {"text": " It performs these calculations to create this plain check sequence for data", "start": 1820.38, "stop": 1824.18, "id": 448}, {"text": " integrity checking, and then it transmits that out as a burst of data.", "start": 1824.18, "stop": 1827.58, "id": 449}, {"text": " But the actual communication between the computer and the TNC is typically asking", "start": 1827.98, "stop": 1832.42, "id": 450}, {"text": " it to a serial port, a standard RS-232 serial port.", "start": 1832.42, "stop": 1836.02, "id": 451}, {"text": " And let me add to that that the TNC puts it out as tones through the voice", "start": 1837.12, "stop": 1842.34, "id": 452}, {"text": " channel, the microphone channel of the radio.", "start": 1842.34, "stop": 1845.96, "id": 453}, {"text": " Now, when it goes out through the tone, is it decoded or encoded?", "start": 1847.1, "stop": 1853.78, "id": 454}, {"text": " The tones are used to encode the data that's being sent.", "start": 1856.26, "stop": 1860.1, "id": 455}, {"text": " Typically we have two tones that we use, one of them near 1200 hertz and", "start": 1860.58, "stop": 1864.14, "id": 456}, {"text": " one of them near 2200 hertz.", "start": 1864.14, "stop": 1865.78, "id": 457}, {"text": " If you have a radio on 2 meters, if you can tune to a packet frequency such as", "start": 1865.78, "stop": 1870.36, "id": 458}, {"text": " 145.010 megahertz, and listen, you'll hear a sound that's kind of a", "start": 1870.36, "stop": 1875.9, "id": 459}, {"text": " rap, is how it's used to describe.", "start": 1875.9, "stop": 1878.16, "id": 460}, {"text": " It's a very raucous, annoying kind of a noise, but the computers just love", "start": 1878.26, "stop": 1882.44, "id": 461}, {"text": " it.", "start": 1882.44, "stop": 1885.48, "id": 462}, {"text": " Our guest, while are you with us?", "start": 1886.0, "stop": 1888.72, "id": 463}, {"text": " Between two stations that are just wanting to exchange data or it might be used", "start": 1891.0800000000002, "stop": 1894.98, "id": 464}, {"text": " on a frequency where there's a BBS and a number of users, the TNC allows itself", "start": 1894.98, "stop": 1901.4, "id": 465}, {"text": " to be tailored for the specific kind of operation that it's being used for.", "start": 1901.4, "stop": 1906.66, "id": 466}, {"text": " Some of these parameters are things that have to do with setting the delay time", "start": 1907.54, "stop": 1913.18, "id": 467}, {"text": " between when the TNC presses the push to talk button on your microphone, in", "start": 1913.18, "stop": 1917.5, "id": 468}, {"text": " effect, and when it then sends data through that microphone connection, allowing", "start": 1917.5, "stop": 1922.46, "id": 469}, {"text": " time for the radio to actually key up and come on to frequency.", "start": 1922.46, "stop": 1926.06, "id": 470}, {"text": " There are also parameters that I believe are usually called D-weight in a TNC,", "start": 1927.74, "stop": 1932.48, "id": 471}, {"text": " and this has to do with the amount of time that the TNC must see that the channel", "start": 1932.94, "stop": 1936.94, "id": 472}, {"text": " is clear before it will begin to attempt to transmit.", "start": 1936.94, "stop": 1940.2, "id": 473}, {"text": " A problem that can occur is if you have a busy frequency and say there's what we", "start": 1942.28, "stop": 1946.1, "id": 474}, {"text": " call a BBS or a bulletin board station, and this is simply a station where a", "start": 1946.1, "stop": 1951.24, "id": 475}, {"text": " packet user can, shall we say, check in and leave messages for others or pull off", "start": 1951.24, "stop": 1955.76, "id": 476}, {"text": " messages or bulletins for himself or things that he might be interested in or", "start": 1955.76, "stop": 1958.88, "id": 477}, {"text": " perhaps even download files or computer programs for his computer.", "start": 1958.88, "stop": 1962.38, "id": 478}, {"text": " Oftentimes it's possible for a person that's not aware of these parameters to", "start": 1965.3, "stop": 1969.36, "id": 479}, {"text": " transfer a very long file, maybe several tens of thousands of bytes over a radio", "start": 1969.36, "stop": 1975.12, "id": 480}, {"text": " channel, perhaps what we call prime time, maybe during 8", "start": 1975.12, "stop": 1978.6, "id": 481}, {"text": " p.m. on a Friday night or something.", "start": 1978.6, "stop": 1980.1, "id": 482}, {"text": " If this is on a channel that's being used by a lot of people, this is kind", "start": 1980.52, "stop": 1983.64, "id": 483}, {"text": " of a discourteous thing to do.", "start": 1983.64, "stop": 1985.14, "id": 484}, {"text": " Now, TNCs often come from the factory with a default set of parameters such", "start": 1985.14, "stop": 1991.78, "id": 485}, {"text": " that they tend to assume there aren't too many other users on the channel.", "start": 1991.78, "stop": 1996.12, "id": 486}, {"text": " If you have a crowded channel and most people set their parameters to back off", "start": 1997.2, "stop": 2001.4, "id": 487}, {"text": " and defer to other users so that people more equally have access to the channel,", "start": 2001.4, "stop": 2005.96, "id": 488}, {"text": " and a small number of stations have not yet done that, that small number of", "start": 2006.42, "stop": 2010.08, "id": 489}, {"text": " stations will wind up hogging the channel, because every time the channel becomes", "start": 2010.08, "stop": 2013.5, "id": 490}, {"text": " free, they will be the most likely ones to jump on", "start": 2013.5, "stop": 2016.06, "id": 491}, {"text": " the channel and send additional data.", "start": 2016.06, "stop": 2017.62, "id": 492}, {"text": " Different areas have different standards, and I'm not sure what the standards", "start": 2019.26, "stop": 2022.24, "id": 493}, {"text": " might be in the Phoenix area, but I would advise you to check with your local BBS", "start": 2022.24, "stop": 2028.12, "id": 494}, {"text": " operator or other local packeteers in your area and find out what the parameters", "start": 2028.12, "stop": 2032.48, "id": 495}, {"text": " are that are being used for various frequencies in your area, and then", "start": 2032.48, "stop": 2036.48, "id": 496}, {"text": " set your TNC to those frequencies.", "start": 2036.48, "stop": 2038.1, "id": 497}, {"text": " It will make the resource, the valuable spectrum resource, more", "start": 2038.5, "stop": 2042.4, "id": 498}, {"text": " equally available to all users.", "start": 2042.4, "stop": 2044.3, "id": 499}, {"text": " Yeah, that's definitely a problem we have here.", "start": 2046.08, "stop": 2048.52, "id": 500}, {"text": " I know that some BBSs, or at least one, has a very short D-weight and ends up", "start": 2048.66, "stop": 2055.16, "id": 501}, {"text": " basically owning the channel.", "start": 2055.16, "stop": 2057.28, "id": 502}, {"text": " Another couple of pet peeves that I've had is that, for one, is BBSs using", "start": 2058.28, "stop": 2064.72, "id": 503}, {"text": " a popular channel to load from other BBSs.", "start": 2064.72, "stop": 2068.3, "id": 504}, {"text": " It's certainly a nuisance, and that's partly addressed", "start": 2068.92, "stop": 2071.58, "id": 505}, {"text": " by the fact we don't have enough channels.", "start": 2071.58, "stop": 2073.2, "id": 506}, {"text": " But another thing is, the BBSs are just big lists of messages, and one person", "start": 2074.08, "stop": 2078.5, "id": 507}, {"text": " after another gets on and downloads the same messages.", "start": 2078.5, "stop": 2081.86, "id": 508}, {"text": " I guess there's some software available that's doing this, but it seems like it", "start": 2083.14, "stop": 2087.08, "id": 509}, {"text": " would be nice to have a standard so that your TNC would just watch them go by and", "start": 2087.08, "stop": 2091.58, "id": 510}, {"text": " grab them, and when you're ready to read them, they'd be there,", "start": 2091.58, "stop": 2093.98, "id": 511}, {"text": " so they wouldn't be retransmitted all.", "start": 2094.32, "stop": 2095.88, "id": 512}, {"text": " Any work on that?", "start": 2096.88, "stop": 2098.24, "id": 513}, {"text": " Broadcast, right? Is that what they call it?", "start": 2098.96, "stop": 2100.3, "id": 514}, {"text": " Yes. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of work that's going on there.", "start": 2100.72, "stop": 2104.5, "id": 515}, {"text": " In 1990, as I mentioned, these packet radio satellites were launched, and these", "start": 2105.12, "stop": 2110.6, "id": 516}, {"text": " are sort of the ultimate BBSs. You've got a station that's orbiting the Earth a", "start": 2110.6, "stop": 2115.16, "id": 517}, {"text": " couple of three, four hundred miles above the surface of the planet.", "start": 2115.16, "stop": 2117.84, "id": 518}, {"text": " That's a really tall mountain top, and it can see a lot of stations that can't", "start": 2118.18, "stop": 2122.08, "id": 519}, {"text": " see one another, so you have a hidden terminal problem, as well as a lot of", "start": 2122.08, "stop": 2126.04, "id": 520}, {"text": " people trying to access this same BBS in order to download the same", "start": 2126.04, "stop": 2130.82, "id": 521}, {"text": " messages over and over again.", "start": 2130.82, "stop": 2132.52, "id": 522}, {"text": " In order to address this problem, Harold Price, NK6K, and Jeff Ward, K8KA,", "start": 2133.66, "stop": 2140.14, "id": 523}, {"text": " developed what they call the PACSAT Broadcast Protocol Suite.", "start": 2140.44, "stop": 2143.9, "id": 524}, {"text": " Okay, Lyle, I'm going to have to break in here. We're about to lose our slot, so", "start": 2144.44, "stop": 2150.28, "id": 525}, {"text": " we'll be back here in about six minutes.", "start": 2150.28, "stop": 2152.98, "id": 526}, {"text": " This is Hand Radio and More. John Moyer, guest host today, talking with Lyle", "start": 2152.98, "stop": 2158.74, "id": 527}, {"text": " Johnson, W.A. 7 GXD. Mr. Packett, will you pull up this?", "start": 2158.74, "stop": 2164.78, "id": 528}, {"text": " Sure, John.", "start": 2165.06, "stop": 2165.8, "id": 529}, {"text": " Okay, we have Mike in Phoenix, and Mike has a question for you.", "start": 2166.44, "stop": 2172.54, "id": 530}, {"text": " Actually, I've got two of them. And how we have so many...", "start": 2173.44, "stop": 2177.0, "id": 531}, {"text": " Pardon me?", "start": 2177.72, "stop": 2178.02, "id": 532}, {"text": " Yeah, I lost Lyle. I'm sorry. Go ahead.", "start": 2178.02, "stop": 2182.5, "id": 533}, {"text": " Actually, the question is corrected for him.", "start": 2184.0, "stop": 2185.9, "id": 534}, {"text": " Well, I may be able to help you while we dial him back up.", "start": 2187.82, "stop": 2191.06, "id": 535}, {"text": " We're still trying to figure out how to work this phone system here.", "start": 2191.32, "stop": 2194.48, "id": 536}, {"text": " So go ahead.", "start": 2195.74, "stop": 2196.38, "id": 537}, {"text": " Seeing how the 220 MHz band doesn't seem to really be used, why hasn't Packett", "start": 2197.7, "stop": 2203.7, "id": 538}, {"text": " kind of drifted up in those frequency ranges?", "start": 2203.7, "stop": 2206.4, "id": 539}, {"text": " Well, there is Packett up there, and in fact, at 220, the frequencies that we", "start": 2208.58, "stop": 2214.02, "id": 540}, {"text": " lost, now we're going to try an experiment here.", "start": 2214.02, "stop": 2217.34, "id": 541}, {"text": " The frequencies that we lost were used extensively for linking.", "start": 2217.42, "stop": 2220.52, "id": 542}, {"text": " So I'll tell you what, since I can't seem to get the conference team to work at", "start": 2221.6, "stop": 2224.76, "id": 543}, {"text": " this point, let me go ahead and go to Lyle and we'll...", "start": 2224.76, "stop": 2228.4, "id": 544}, {"text": " You may or may not be here when I push the button, okay?", "start": 2229.54, "stop": 2231.98, "id": 545}, {"text": " Lyle, are you there?", "start": 2234.62, "stop": 2235.44, "id": 546}, {"text": " Yes, I was...", "start": 2235.44, "stop": 2237.22, "id": 547}, {"text": " Sorry about this.", "start": 2237.22, "stop": 2237.8, "id": 548}, {"text": " I didn't hear what the question was.", "start": 2239.54, "stop": 2241.3, "id": 549}, {"text": " The question was, why isn't there Packett activity on 220?", "start": 2241.54, "stop": 2243.8, "id": 550}, {"text": " Oh, that's a very good question, and I'm really", "start": 2244.82, "stop": 2248.32, "id": 551}, {"text": " not sure what the answer to that would be.", "start": 2248.32, "stop": 2250.42, "id": 552}, {"text": " In many parts of the country, there is a lot of Packett activity in the 220 to", "start": 2250.64, "stop": 2254.18, "id": 553}, {"text": " 220... or, yeah, 220 to 225 MHz.", "start": 2254.18, "stop": 2257.44, "id": 554}, {"text": " One of the advantages that Packett can bring, since we lost 40% of that band", "start": 2258.24, "stop": 2262.68, "id": 555}, {"text": " recently, is in the area of repeater control, where a number of repeaters could", "start": 2262.68, "stop": 2267.58, "id": 556}, {"text": " have a single control frequency and use Packett radio techniques", "start": 2267.58, "stop": 2271.82, "id": 557}, {"text": " to affect the repeater control.", "start": 2271.82, "stop": 2273.74, "id": 558}, {"text": " That would then make more of the frequencies on 220 available for Packett radio", "start": 2274.06, "stop": 2279.58, "id": 559}, {"text": " use, because I believe that a lot of the frequencies on 220 are used as control", "start": 2279.58, "stop": 2283.44, "id": 560}, {"text": " links for repeaters on 2 meters and 70 centimeters.", "start": 2283.44, "stop": 2286.84, "id": 561}, {"text": " Okay, very good.", "start": 2289.12, "stop": 2290.26, "id": 562}, {"text": " Let's see, looks like we've got another caller coming in here.", "start": 2291.34, "stop": 2295.4, "id": 563}, {"text": " We'll pick him up in a minute.", "start": 2296.2, "stop": 2297.38, "id": 564}, {"text": " One of the things... or some of the things I want to talk about this hour are", "start": 2298.1, "stop": 2303.04, "id": 565}, {"text": " new technologies.", "start": 2303.04, "stop": 2306.24, "id": 566}, {"text": " [...] digital technologies, ACSSB, Spread Spectrum, Turnpene,", "start": 2306.24, "stop": 2313.18, "id": 567}, {"text": " Cellular, all these things.", "start": 2313.34, "stop": 2316.64, "id": 568}, {"text": " Okay, we've got Mike back, and we're going to try again.", "start": 2316.8, "stop": 2319.36, "id": 569}, {"text": " Wish me luck.", "start": 2320.08, "stop": 2320.74, "id": 570}, {"text": " We'll see if we can get this conference to work here.", "start": 2321.04, "stop": 2323.3, "id": 571}, {"text": " Stand by.", "start": 2323.72, "stop": 2324.08, "id": 572}, {"text": " Okay, Lyle, you still there?", "start": 2326.48, "stop": 2327.88, "id": 573}, {"text": " Yes, sir.", "start": 2328.16, "stop": 2328.72, "id": 574}, {"text": " Mike, you there?", "start": 2328.88, "stop": 2329.52, "id": 575}, {"text": " Yeah, I'm here.", "start": 2329.68, "stop": 2330.32, "id": 576}, {"text": " Hey, I think I figured it out.", "start": 2330.64, "stop": 2331.8, "id": 577}, {"text": " Go ahead, Mike.", "start": 2332.02, "stop": 2332.3, "id": 578}, {"text": " [...]", "start": 2332.3, "stop": 2332.72, "id": 579}, {"text": " I bought one of these commercial available PMCs that's about the", "start": 2333.8, "stop": 2337.66, "id": 580}, {"text": " size of a gender changer.", "start": 2337.66, "stop": 2339.26, "id": 581}, {"text": " And one feature it doesn't have is it doesn't have a mailbox feature.", "start": 2340.14, "stop": 2344.88, "id": 582}, {"text": " And I'm wondering, is anybody working on these software upgrades to give us a", "start": 2345.48, "stop": 2351.82, "id": 583}, {"text": " mailbox feature, because I'd like to go portable with a little laptop and", "start": 2351.82, "stop": 2357.98, "id": 584}, {"text": " occasionally pick up messages that way.", "start": 2357.98, "stop": 2360.2, "id": 585}, {"text": " I'm aware of a couple of small PMCs that are manufactured these days, and the", "start": 2363.84, "stop": 2370.54, "id": 586}, {"text": " ones that I'm aware of do have the mailbox feature.", "start": 2370.54, "stop": 2373.58, "id": 587}, {"text": " I'm not sure which one that you have that wouldn't have that.", "start": 2375.84, "stop": 2379.62, "id": 588}, {"text": " I've got PCCOM.", "start": 2380.34, "stop": 2381.52, "id": 589}, {"text": " PCCOM, okay.", "start": 2383.28, "stop": 2384.26, "id": 590}, {"text": " I guess I'm not.", "start": 2384.26, "stop": 2385.82, "id": 591}, {"text": " Is that one of those systems where the actual packet software runs in the", "start": 2386.04, "stop": 2392.42, "id": 592}, {"text": " computer and the plug-in adapter is simply a modem as opposed to a PMC?", "start": 2392.42, "stop": 2395.96, "id": 593}, {"text": " Yeah, I see.", "start": 2396.8, "stop": 2397.92, "id": 594}, {"text": " Yeah, that would, the other way that I would think one could deal with that", "start": 2398.22, "stop": 2405.12, "id": 595}, {"text": " would be to talk to the people that wrote the software for that type of system", "start": 2405.12, "stop": 2410.18, "id": 596}, {"text": " and see if they plan on implementing that.", "start": 2410.18, "stop": 2412.54, "id": 597}, {"text": " So the problem being that the nature of what we would call a software TNC", "start": 2412.54, "stop": 2419.42, "id": 598}, {"text": " is that everything has to be highly integrated into that software package itself.", "start": 2419.42, "stop": 2424.76, "id": 599}, {"text": " It doesn't easily lend itself to having sort of add-on modules, if you will.", "start": 2424.92, "stop": 2428.84, "id": 600}, {"text": " So I think that you'd really have to talk to the people", "start": 2429.56, "stop": 2434.04, "id": 601}, {"text": " that develop that software.", "start": 2434.04, "stop": 2435.64, "id": 602}, {"text": " Okay, well, thanks a lot for all the information.", "start": 2436.68, "stop": 2438.4, "id": 603}, {"text": " Okay, thanks for your call.", "start": 2439.44, "stop": 2440.74, "id": 604}, {"text": " Okay, I think, Lyle, we've still got you.", "start": 2444.7000000000003, "stop": 2447.86, "id": 605}, {"text": " Yes, sir.", "start": 2448.18, "stop": 2448.68, "id": 606}, {"text": " How about that?", "start": 2448.92, "stop": 2449.78, "id": 607}, {"text": " I'll figure this technology out yet.", "start": 2449.88, "stop": 2452.3, "id": 608}, {"text": " Okay, this is Ham Radio and Moore, John Moore, your guest host on KFNN.", "start": 2454.2000000000003, "stop": 2460.86, "id": 609}, {"text": " And our number is 230-2755, 230-2755,", "start": 2460.86, "stop": 2467.84, "id": 610}, {"text": " or 1-800-293-KFNN.", "start": 2468.34, "stop": 2472.98, "id": 611}, {"text": " So if you'd like to ask Lyle Johnson, our guest, any questions or participate in", "start": 2474.64, "stop": 2479.92, "id": 612}, {"text": " the discussion, give us a call.", "start": 2479.92, "stop": 2481.64, "id": 613}, {"text": " Okay, Lyle, what do you see, first of all, do we", "start": 2483.6, "stop": 2486.52, "id": 614}, {"text": " need new technology in Ham Radio?", "start": 2486.52, "stop": 2488.12, "id": 615}, {"text": " Well, I'm kind of a technologist, so I'd have to answer that, yes.", "start": 2488.9199999999996, "stop": 2493.02, "id": 616}, {"text": " I feel the same way.", "start": 2494.32, "stop": 2495.76, "id": 617}, {"text": " Why do we need it?", "start": 2498.86, "stop": 2500.44, "id": 618}, {"text": " Well, one of the purposes of Ham Radio, the basis and purpose upon which we exist", "start": 2501.44, "stop": 2507.98, "id": 619}, {"text": " under law, is that the amateur radio service provides technical", "start": 2507.98, "stop": 2514.64, "id": 620}, {"text": " innovation and technical progress in the radio art.", "start": 2514.64, "stop": 2518.32, "id": 621}, {"text": " That's only one of our bases for existence, but it's one that, in my particular", "start": 2519.32, "stop": 2523.66, "id": 622}, {"text": " case, I'm very keenly aware of.", "start": 2523.66, "stop": 2526.94, "id": 623}, {"text": " And in these days and in these times, it's difficult for amateur radio to", "start": 2527.82, "stop": 2532.26, "id": 624}, {"text": " actually create new technology.", "start": 2532.26, "stop": 2534.58, "id": 625}, {"text": " And the reason that I say that is because most of the technological innovation", "start": 2534.58, "stop": 2540.46, "id": 626}, {"text": " that's happening in electronics today occurs with companies with very large R&D", "start": 2540.46, "stop": 2547.32, "id": 627}, {"text": " budgets to create very complex integrated circuits that we call ASICs, for", "start": 2547.32, "stop": 2551.18, "id": 628}, {"text": " application-specific integrated circuits.", "start": 2551.18, "stop": 2553.14, "id": 629}, {"text": " And these things have their specific function built into them", "start": 2553.62, "stop": 2557.58, "id": 630}, {"text": " for mass market purposes.", "start": 2557.58, "stop": 2559.36, "id": 631}, {"text": " And that's not the kind of technology that a ham can really influence very much.", "start": 2559.36, "stop": 2565.02, "id": 632}, {"text": " In the old days, radios were made out of parts.", "start": 2565.5, "stop": 2567.68, "id": 633}, {"text": " You'd get tubes, you'd get transistors, you'd get general purpose integrated", "start": 2568.58, "stop": 2571.72, "id": 634}, {"text": " circuits wired together and make something new and different.", "start": 2571.72, "stop": 2574.68, "id": 635}, {"text": " But what Ham Radio can provide in this region, in this area of technological", "start": 2575.08, "stop": 2578.86, "id": 636}, {"text": " innovation, is a spectrum resource and a lot of ability to collect data.", "start": 2578.86, "stop": 2584.68, "id": 637}, {"text": " For example, in HF, or high frequency communications, data communications have", "start": 2585.54, "stop": 2592.08, "id": 638}, {"text": " traditionally been a difficult thing.", "start": 2592.08, "stop": 2594.16, "id": 639}, {"text": " There's a new protocol and a new system really", "start": 2596.04, "stop": 2599.04, "id": 640}, {"text": " that's being developed called Clover.", "start": 2599.04, "stop": 2600.56, "id": 641}, {"text": " This is being done by a ham that lives up in the Washington State area, and it's", "start": 2601.28, "stop": 2605.52, "id": 642}, {"text": " now being funded by HAL.", "start": 2605.52, "stop": 2607.64, "id": 643}, {"text": " And Clover, it turns out that in the experiments that have been done to date, it", "start": 2608.3599999999997, "stop": 2613.5, "id": 644}, {"text": " is probably the most spectrum efficient and most robust means of sending data", "start": 2613.5, "stop": 2619.12, "id": 645}, {"text": " through HF that's been developed to date.", "start": 2619.12, "stop": 2621.14, "id": 646}, {"text": " There's a lot of interest in this technology from the military, from emergency", "start": 2621.78, "stop": 2626.7, "id": 647}, {"text": " services out of Washington, D.C.", "start": 2626.7, "stop": 2629.36, "id": 648}, {"text": " And this is one area where amateur radio is actually at the forefront of a", "start": 2629.82, "stop": 2635.92, "id": 649}, {"text": " complete new technological development.", "start": 2635.92, "stop": 2637.62, "id": 650}, {"text": " But what I see happening in Ham Radio in terms of new technology is that the", "start": 2637.64, "stop": 2643.36, "id": 651}, {"text": " radio spectrum that we use, be it on 2 meters or on HF or on VHF or UHF or the", "start": 2643.36, "stop": 2649.24, "id": 652}, {"text": " microwave frequencies, we're under tremendous", "start": 2649.24, "stop": 2651.52, "id": 653}, {"text": " pressure these days for that spectrum.", "start": 2651.52, "stop": 2653.6, "id": 654}, {"text": " The commercial users figure that the spectrum is worth an astronomical", "start": 2654.4, "stop": 2658.76, "id": 655}, {"text": " number of dollars per hertz of spectrum.", "start": 2658.76, "stop": 2660.96, "id": 656}, {"text": " So just as the earlier caller was mentioning about the 220 band, where we just", "start": 2660.96, "stop": 2667.82, "id": 657}, {"text": " recently lost a portion of that due to commercial pressures and commercial", "start": 2667.82, "stop": 2671.24, "id": 658}, {"text": " interest, amateurs are going to need to demonstrate greater efficiency in the use", "start": 2671.24, "stop": 2675.78, "id": 659}, {"text": " of the spectrum that we have and more innovation in the use of that spectrum.", "start": 2675.78, "stop": 2679.76, "id": 660}, {"text": " If we all just sit and chat on FM repeaters, we're eventually going to wind up", "start": 2680.16, "stop": 2686.28, "id": 661}, {"text": " losing a lot of the spectrum that we have due to these pressures", "start": 2686.28, "stop": 2690.82, "id": 662}, {"text": " from these other commercial interests.", "start": 2690.82, "stop": 2692.82, "id": 663}, {"text": " I'm not saying that chatting on 2 meters is a bad thing to do.", "start": 2693.2, "stop": 2696.3, "id": 664}, {"text": " I'm simply saying that there's a lot of other things that we also must do.", "start": 2696.54, "stop": 2699.72, "id": 665}, {"text": " Yeah, very good. I wanted to throw in a comment here and then we're going to", "start": 2699.88, "stop": 2704.92, "id": 666}, {"text": " take about a 3 minute break.", "start": 2704.92, "stop": 2706.58, "id": 667}, {"text": " Sometimes I talk to Ham's and they say, well, I don't do any", "start": 2708.02, "stop": 2712.22, "id": 668}, {"text": " technology. I don't design circuits.", "start": 2712.22, "stop": 2714.26, "id": 669}, {"text": " I'm just an appliance operator. I say, well, what's your station?", "start": 2714.26, "stop": 2718.74, "id": 670}, {"text": " Well, I've got a PC and I've got it hooked up to a TMC and I've got a 2 meter", "start": 2719.0, "stop": 2724.14, "id": 671}, {"text": " radio and I've got HF and a beam and I talk Antor and blah, blah, blah.", "start": 2724.14, "stop": 2730.58, "id": 672}, {"text": " Pretty soon when you think about it, these people are doing technology.", "start": 2730.74, "stop": 2733.58, "id": 673}, {"text": " They're just doing it at a higher level in the same way that you guys didn't make", "start": 2733.84, "stop": 2738.26, "id": 674}, {"text": " integrated circuits to do TAPR.", "start": 2738.26, "stop": 2740.22, "id": 675}, {"text": " They're integrating boxes now instead of circuits, so they're", "start": 2740.22, "stop": 2744.46, "id": 676}, {"text": " still doing something.", "start": 2744.46, "stop": 2745.96, "id": 677}, {"text": " We'll be back in 3 minutes. This is Ham Radio and More.", "start": 2746.98, "stop": 2749.7, "id": 678}, {"text": " Len Winkler here for AEA in...", "start": 2750.36, "stop": 2752.2400000000002, "id": 679}, {"text": " We're back. Your guest host today...", "start": 2757.14, "stop": 2759.22, "id": 680}, {"text": " Getting overwhelmed by music here.", "start": 2760.7200000000003, "stop": 2762.84, "id": 681}, {"text": " Your guest host today is John Moore in J70.", "start": 2764.7200000000003, "stop": 2767.44, "id": 682}, {"text": " As you can tell, Len is in no danger of losing his job as host here.", "start": 2768.2400000000002, "stop": 2772.72, "id": 683}, {"text": " We also have Nick Seuss, W7ZMD, and our guest, Lyle Johnson,", "start": 2774.02, "stop": 2779.28, "id": 684}, {"text": " WA7GXD.", "start": 2779.52, "stop": 2781.74, "id": 685}, {"text": " Lyle, we just heard an ad for a DSP product there. Have you", "start": 2782.98, "stop": 2788.1, "id": 686}, {"text": " done any digital signal processing?", "start": 2788.1, "stop": 2789.7, "id": 687}, {"text": " Yes, John. Actually, TAPR and AMSAT jointly have had kind of an on-again, off", "start": 2791.22, "stop": 2796.72, "id": 688}, {"text": "-again DSP project in the works.", "start": 2796.72, "stop": 2799.4, "id": 689}, {"text": " This first started back in 1987, 1988.", "start": 2800.58, "stop": 2804.42, "id": 690}, {"text": " It got shelved when the volunteer resources for that project wound up being", "start": 2805.04, "stop": 2810.08, "id": 691}, {"text": " involved in its micro-sat development for 2 years.", "start": 2810.08, "stop": 2812.32, "id": 692}, {"text": " It picked up again recently, and in March of this year at the TAPR Annual", "start": 2813.06, "stop": 2817.22, "id": 693}, {"text": " Meeting, we demonstrated some initial applications being run on a DSP plug-in", "start": 2817.22, "stop": 2822.58, "id": 694}, {"text": " board for an IBM PC-compatible computer, which is the device that", "start": 2822.58, "stop": 2827.8, "id": 695}, {"text": " TAPR and AMSAT are currently developing.", "start": 2827.8, "stop": 2829.52, "id": 696}, {"text": " Very good. Now I'll explain for the guests...", "start": 2830.52, "stop": 2833.32, "id": 697}, {"text": " For the guests, sorry about that.", "start": 2833.98, "stop": 2836.12, "id": 698}, {"text": " For the listeners here who are not technically inclined, digital signal", "start": 2836.12, "stop": 2840.24, "id": 699}, {"text": " processing is kind of an interesting modern trick where", "start": 2840.24, "stop": 2846.12, "id": 700}, {"text": " audio signals typically are converted into numbers", "start": 2846.12, "stop": 2852.16, "id": 701}, {"text": " digitized, processed by a computer, and frequently converted back into", "start": 2852.16, "stop": 2858.86, "id": 702}, {"text": " audio signals again after they've been processed.", "start": 2858.86, "stop": 2861.46, "id": 703}, {"text": " And I should mention this is KFNN,", "start": 2862.6800000000003, "stop": 2866.38, "id": 704}, {"text": " Ham Radio and More. What's your guest host, John Moore?", "start": 2869.36, "stop": 2873.58, "id": 705}, {"text": " And we still have our trivia prize outstanding. Our", "start": 2875.56, "stop": 2878.88, "id": 706}, {"text": " trivia prize is still outstanding.", "start": 2878.88, "stop": 2880.47, "id": 707}, {"text": " What month were the first TAPR beta boards delivered?", "start": 2881.58, "stop": 2884.18, "id": 708}, {"text": " I'll give a clue since Lyle already said it once for those who are listening.", "start": 2884.34, "stop": 2888.04, "id": 709}, {"text": " The year was 83. That should make it easy.", "start": 2888.38, "stop": 2891.18, "id": 710}, {"text": " Our number is 230-2755, 230-2755,", "start": 2891.46, "stop": 2897.92, "id": 711}, {"text": " or 1-800-293-KFNN.", "start": 2898.68, "stop": 2901.94, "id": 712}, {"text": " While one thing I've noticed, and anybody can go to the VHF bands or UHF bands,", "start": 2903.1, "stop": 2910.04, "id": 713}, {"text": " tune around and notice the same thing, that is, they're empty.", "start": 2910.18, "stop": 2914.48, "id": 714}, {"text": " Now, the repeater channels are frequently all occupied. Try getting a 2-meter", "start": 2914.48, "stop": 2920.58, "id": 715}, {"text": " repeater channel in Phoenix, and you won't get coordination", "start": 2920.58, "stop": 2923.46, "id": 716}, {"text": " because they're all full.", "start": 2923.46, "stop": 2925.18, "id": 717}, {"text": " But if you look at a spectrum analyzer or turn on a radio and", "start": 2926.04, "stop": 2929.66, "id": 718}, {"text": " turn around, there's nobody there.", "start": 2929.66, "stop": 2931.18, "id": 719}, {"text": " What do you think of that?", "start": 2932.74, "stop": 2933.64, "id": 720}, {"text": " Well, this strikes me as part of a principle that I call it. Just", "start": 2935.0, "stop": 2939.18, "id": 721}, {"text": " because you can doesn't mean you should.", "start": 2939.18, "stop": 2940.82, "id": 722}, {"text": " I apply this often on packet frequencies, say on HF, where a person", "start": 2942.0, "stop": 2948.58, "id": 723}, {"text": " calls a CQ, and the next thing you know you've got 10 or 20 different Q-sos", "start": 2948.58, "stop": 2952.44, "id": 724}, {"text": " going, and because of the hidden terminal problem, the", "start": 2952.44, "stop": 2956.18, "id": 725}, {"text": " channel falls apart rather rapidly.", "start": 2956.18, "stop": 2957.9, "id": 726}, {"text": " And this is the case where, because packet allows multiple stations to exist on a", "start": 2959.1, "stop": 2963.16, "id": 727}, {"text": " frequency, doesn't mean that it's a good idea for all", "start": 2963.16, "stop": 2966.04, "id": 728}, {"text": " stations to exist on a single frequency.", "start": 2966.04, "stop": 2967.76, "id": 729}, {"text": " In the case of repeaters, it seems to me that there's a tremendous number of", "start": 2967.76, "stop": 2972.24, "id": 730}, {"text": " repeaters that are drastically underutilized.", "start": 2972.24, "stop": 2975.8, "id": 731}, {"text": " And I'm not sure how to deal with this philosophically because", "start": 2977.0, "stop": 2981.34, "id": 732}, {"text": " one of the great blessings, I guess I could say, in amateur radio is", "start": 2981.34, "stop": 2988.34, "id": 733}, {"text": " the anarchy that exists.", "start": 2988.34, "stop": 2990.46, "id": 734}, {"text": " It's because of the anarchy and the inefficiencies and the lack of true central", "start": 2990.68, "stop": 2995.14, "id": 735}, {"text": " coordination that the amateur radio network on sort of an ad hoc basis", "start": 2995.14, "stop": 3001.78, "id": 736}, {"text": " is able to provide communications and emergencies, whereas if it was a very", "start": 3001.78, "stop": 3005.98, "id": 737}, {"text": " structured service, it would suffer from the same problems that the commercial", "start": 3005.98, "stop": 3009.8, "id": 738}, {"text": " networks suffer from when disasters occur.", "start": 3009.8, "stop": 3011.88, "id": 739}, {"text": " I guess I don't have any answers at this point, but it seems to me that we could", "start": 3013.12, "stop": 3018.92, "id": 740}, {"text": " certainly more efficiently utilize the spectrum that we have.", "start": 3018.92, "stop": 3022.66, "id": 741}, {"text": " I guess the parallel to the repeaters you're talking about might be", "start": 3022.66, "stop": 3027.36, "id": 742}, {"text": " the BBSs and packet radio.", "start": 3027.36, "stop": 3028.98, "id": 743}, {"text": " It's not really necessary for every packet station to have a BBS.", "start": 3030.1, "stop": 3033.68, "id": 744}, {"text": " And sometimes it seems you could get into one area that there might be 50 people", "start": 3034.7, "stop": 3039.14, "id": 745}, {"text": " on packet and there'll be 10 BBS stations.", "start": 3039.14, "stop": 3041.1, "id": 746}, {"text": " Would you repeat that three times?", "start": 3041.28, "stop": 3042.74, "id": 747}, {"text": " I think we're getting into some sore spots here.", "start": 3045.04, "stop": 3047.64, "id": 748}, {"text": " [...]", "start": 3047.64, "stop": 3048.04, "id": 749}, {"text": " Let's talk about this in the context of higher technology.", "start": 3051.96, "stop": 3055.64, "id": 750}, {"text": " There are more efficient ways to use frequencies.", "start": 3058.34, "stop": 3061.86, "id": 751}, {"text": " They don't necessarily provide exactly the same function that our current systems", "start": 3062.26, "stop": 3066.66, "id": 752}, {"text": " do, but people have talked about spread spectrum, for example.", "start": 3066.66, "stop": 3071.4, "id": 753}, {"text": " Now with spread spectrum, for those who are not familiar, you essentially", "start": 3072.06, "stop": 3075.58, "id": 754}, {"text": " transmit on a whole bunch of frequencies at once, but you transmit a lot less", "start": 3075.58, "stop": 3079.62, "id": 755}, {"text": " power on those frequencies.", "start": 3079.62, "stop": 3081.12, "id": 756}, {"text": " It's a very interesting mode.", "start": 3081.6, "stop": 3083.16, "id": 757}, {"text": " It is now legal in certain limited ways on ham radio.", "start": 3083.32, "stop": 3086.72, "id": 758}, {"text": " It has some advantages and disadvantages.", "start": 3087.14, "stop": 3088.5800000000004, "id": 759}, {"text": " Certainly if we use spread spectrum, we could make sure all our frequencies", "start": 3090.92, "stop": 3093.96, "id": 760}, {"text": " weren't used any time anybody was talking,", "start": 3093.96, "stop": 3096.06, "id": 761}, {"text": " although I don't think that's the point.", "start": 3096.2, "stop": 3097.86, "id": 762}, {"text": " There's trunking.", "start": 3099.26, "stop": 3100.12, "id": 763}, {"text": " We see trunking in commercial systems, and this is where you have multiple", "start": 3100.12, "stop": 3105.08, "id": 764}, {"text": " repeaters at the same site, and the radio equipment automatically selects one", "start": 3105.08, "stop": 3110.38, "id": 765}, {"text": " that's open, or one that's essentially a calling channel for your group that you", "start": 3110.38, "stop": 3115.14, "id": 766}, {"text": " want to talk to, and that achieves efficiencies.", "start": 3115.14, "stop": 3117.1800000000003, "id": 767}, {"text": " There's cellular technologies where you have repeaters that cover smaller areas", "start": 3118.42, "stop": 3122.62, "id": 768}, {"text": " and they're linked together, and you move around and", "start": 3122.62, "stop": 3125.22, "id": 769}, {"text": " switch from repeater to repeater.", "start": 3125.22, "stop": 3126.78, "id": 770}, {"text": " Do you see any of those commercial technologies in case of", "start": 3126.78, "stop": 3132.62, "id": 771}, {"text": " spread spectrum military also?", "start": 3132.62, "stop": 3134.22, "id": 772}, {"text": " Do you see those moving into ham radio and maybe supplanting our current", "start": 3134.48, "stop": 3139.18, "id": 773}, {"text": " VHF-FM systems?", "start": 3139.18, "stop": 3140.92, "id": 774}, {"text": " John, I think that we'll begin to see people that are involved in the", "start": 3142.24, "stop": 3148.84, "id": 775}, {"text": " technological forefront in amateur radio using and experimenting and promoting", "start": 3148.84, "stop": 3153.52, "id": 776}, {"text": " these technologies, much in the similar fashion to the things that we did with", "start": 3153.52, "stop": 3159.0, "id": 777}, {"text": " packet radio 10 and 12 years ago.", "start": 3159.0, "stop": 3160.94, "id": 778}, {"text": " I think what will, of course, Microsoft also probably just as cloudy as the next", "start": 3162.8, "stop": 3167.84, "id": 779}, {"text": " fellows, but I think that what will likely happen is that as these technologies", "start": 3167.84, "stop": 3172.8, "id": 780}, {"text": " come about and are demonstrated, if it appears that there is a useful means", "start": 3172.8, "stop": 3179.6, "id": 781}, {"text": " by which they can be implemented in a very cost-effective manner, because again,", "start": 3179.6, "stop": 3183.66, "id": 782}, {"text": " hams do this as a hobby and there's a certain limited number of funds that are", "start": 3183.96, "stop": 3190.58, "id": 783}, {"text": " available to switch over from owning a radio of one", "start": 3190.58, "stop": 3193.96, "id": 784}, {"text": " type to owning a radio of another type.", "start": 3193.96, "stop": 3195.48, "id": 785}, {"text": " But as these technologies prove themselves in the amateur world and as", "start": 3196.32, "stop": 3203.32, "id": 786}, {"text": " they become cost-effective, and I believe they will become cost-effective because", "start": 3203.32, "stop": 3206.88, "id": 787}, {"text": " they'll be widely applied in the commercial world for the same reasons that we", "start": 3206.88, "stop": 3210.78, "id": 788}, {"text": " will begin to need to apply them in the amateur world, that is to say spectrum", "start": 3210.78, "stop": 3213.9, "id": 789}, {"text": " efficiency, trying to get more users able to simultaneously", "start": 3213.9, "stop": 3217.96, "id": 790}, {"text": " operate within a given bandwidth.", "start": 3217.96, "stop": 3220.02, "id": 791}, {"text": " Certainly, cellular technology is very interesting from a lot of aspects.", "start": 3221.64, "stop": 3227.0, "id": 792}, {"text": " Some of the newer systems of it that are based on spread spectrum not only use", "start": 3227.16, "stop": 3232.06, "id": 793}, {"text": " but require power control in the transmitters.", "start": 3232.06, "stop": 3234.46, "id": 794}, {"text": " So part of our rules and regulations that tell us to use a minimum amount of", "start": 3234.46, "stop": 3238.78, "id": 795}, {"text": " power that's necessary to maintain communication happen as a default to the", "start": 3238.78, "stop": 3243.3, "id": 796}, {"text": " nature of the technology that's applied.", "start": 3243.3, "stop": 3244.94, "id": 797}, {"text": " That would be the first time anybody obeyed that in any significant numbers.", "start": 3245.2, "stop": 3249.34, "id": 798}, {"text": " When you talk about cellular, you know that they've been doing that on HF.", "start": 3250.74, "stop": 3255.42, "id": 799}, {"text": " In what sense?", "start": 3257.14, "stop": 3258.14, "id": 800}, {"text": " Well, Miles said yes, I think he knows what I'm getting at.", "start": 3258.8, "stop": 3262.18, "id": 801}, {"text": " Two packet stations that are talking to each other across the country on 20", "start": 3262.9, "stop": 3266.84, "id": 802}, {"text": " meters and they run into a lot of QSP.", "start": 3266.84, "stop": 3268.72, "id": 803}, {"text": " The stations without human intervention determine that they're going to", "start": 3269.66, "stop": 3276.5, "id": 804}, {"text": " change bands, and they'll change bands from say 14.101 or whatever to 21.083,", "start": 3276.5, "stop": 3283.14, "id": 805}, {"text": " because propagation is better on 15 for their particular", "start": 3284.14, "stop": 3287.96, "id": 806}, {"text": " distance at a particular time of the day.", "start": 3287.96, "stop": 3289.88, "id": 807}, {"text": " This is occurring, and it's using systems that have been in use for", "start": 3291.08, "stop": 3296.54, "id": 808}, {"text": " at least several years.", "start": 3296.54, "stop": 3298.22, "id": 809}, {"text": " However, it entails a tremendous amount of interlocking capability between the", "start": 3298.68, "stop": 3304.34, "id": 810}, {"text": " transceiver and the computer and obviously the entire system.", "start": 3304.34, "stop": 3310.0, "id": 811}, {"text": " One of the things I've thought about a little bit, Lyle, is a lot", "start": 3310.8, "stop": 3317.7, "id": 812}, {"text": " of these newer technologies require essentially massive infrastructure.", "start": 3317.7, "stop": 3323.86, "id": 813}, {"text": " Cellular is an example.", "start": 3324.56, "stop": 3325.66, "id": 814}, {"text": " Trunking is another one.", "start": 3326.78, "stop": 3328.0, "id": 815}, {"text": " You don't have trunking until a bunch of repeaters are in the same place.", "start": 3328.26, "stop": 3333.86, "id": 816}, {"text": " I don't know quite how we would get that together.", "start": 3335.34, "stop": 3338.14, "id": 817}, {"text": " We do have a large infrastructure in packet networks and repeaters today, but it", "start": 3338.14, "stop": 3343.14, "id": 818}, {"text": " grew, as you said, in an anarchical manner.", "start": 3343.14, "stop": 3346.12, "id": 819}, {"text": " It just sort of happened, and some of these systems may require", "start": 3346.46, "stop": 3349.72, "id": 820}, {"text": " planning. Do you think that would preclude them?", "start": 3349.72, "stop": 3351.94, "id": 821}, {"text": " I think some of the systems that you're discussing, such as trunking, I guess I", "start": 3352.8, "stop": 3357.5, "id": 822}, {"text": " would be surprised if I saw those exist in general in amateur radio, because", "start": 3357.5, "stop": 3362.26, "id": 823}, {"text": " we're essentially, as you say, we're dealing with trying to improve our spectrum", "start": 3362.26, "stop": 3366.24, "id": 824}, {"text": " efficiency by using a lot of narrowband", "start": 3366.24, "stop": 3371.88, "id": 825}, {"text": " technology all in the same place.", "start": 3371.88, "stop": 3373.78, "id": 826}, {"text": " It requires radios that are able to be commanded or channeled from this repeater.", "start": 3374.32, "stop": 3380.4, "id": 827}, {"text": " I'm not sure how many hands are going to be happy to have something", "start": 3381.22, "stop": 3384.58, "id": 828}, {"text": " else channeling the radios for them.", "start": 3384.58, "stop": 3386.26, "id": 829}, {"text": " Some of the other technologies that don't require such a large shift", "start": 3388.34, "stop": 3395.04, "id": 830}, {"text": " in the type of equipment that's being used, I think will have a", "start": 3395.04, "stop": 3398.82, "id": 831}, {"text": " better chance of success.", "start": 3398.82, "stop": 3400.94, "id": 832}, {"text": " For example, the Clover HF system uses power control in", "start": 3401.78, "stop": 3407.38, "id": 833}, {"text": " order to maintain minimum communications.", "start": 3407.38, "stop": 3408.94, "id": 834}, {"text": " It's fascinating to watch it, the Q-SIL, with this, where your HF transceaser", "start": 3408.94, "stop": 3414.28, "id": 835}, {"text": " will be notched down from 100 watts output to maybe less than 1 watt, and yet the", "start": 3414.28, "stop": 3418.64, "id": 836}, {"text": " data is still flying from Arizona to Michigan, for example.", "start": 3418.64, "stop": 3422.2, "id": 837}, {"text": " That is pretty neat. I do indeed", "start": 3422.78, "stop": 3428.76, "id": 838}, {"text": " think that is a nifty thing.", "start": 3428.76, "stop": 3430.76, "id": 839}, {"text": " How about satellites? Currently, satellites, for the most part, are the", "start": 3431.1, "stop": 3435.1, "id": 840}, {"text": " realm of specialists.", "start": 3435.1, "stop": 3436.82, "id": 841}, {"text": " People with big, funny-looking antenna systems with SR mounts and", "start": 3436.82, "stop": 3443.26, "id": 842}, {"text": " expensive dual-band, side-band gear and things like that.", "start": 3443.26, "stop": 3446.98, "id": 843}, {"text": " Do you think satellites are going to be more accessible to the average hand?", "start": 3447.04, "stop": 3450.72, "id": 844}, {"text": " Yes, I do. I think that for two reasons and in two ways.", "start": 3451.52, "stop": 3455.56, "id": 845}, {"text": " One, the next generation of satellites, such as Phase 3D, are going to have", "start": 3455.92, "stop": 3460.48, "id": 846}, {"text": " downlinks, that is, signals coming from the satellite to the ground on the order", "start": 3460.48, "stop": 3464.54, "id": 847}, {"text": " of 10 dB stronger than the present satellites out.", "start": 3464.54, "stop": 3467.54, "id": 848}, {"text": " They're going to be more sensitive on the received side by something on the order", "start": 3468.0, "stop": 3471.9, "id": 849}, {"text": " of 10 dB, which means that a person will be able to use much simpler antennas,", "start": 3471.9, "stop": 3476.06, "id": 850}, {"text": " perhaps even omnidirectional antennas with radios of under 100 watts, to", "start": 3476.26, "stop": 3480.32, "id": 851}, {"text": " make effective use of these satellites.", "start": 3480.32, "stop": 3481.92, "id": 852}, {"text": " The second thing that's going to happen, for example, on the Phase 3D, is it's", "start": 3482.5, "stop": 3486.48, "id": 853}, {"text": " going to have a smart, multiple-notch filter, so that if it sees a ground station", "start": 3486.48, "stop": 3490.82, "id": 854}, {"text": " that's using more power than is necessary, it will zero in on that station, it", "start": 3490.82, "stop": 3495.08, "id": 855}, {"text": " will send a signal down to the station on the ground, and tell that station", "start": 3495.08, "stop": 3498.64, "id": 856}, {"text": " either to code or to synthesize first, you're running too much power, back off,", "start": 3498.64, "stop": 3502.7, "id": 857}, {"text": " and if the person doesn't do it after two or three warnings, it'll drop a notch", "start": 3503.1, "stop": 3506.06, "id": 858}, {"text": " filter on that person who did this from the past man of the satellite until he", "start": 3506.06, "stop": 3509.16, "id": 859}, {"text": " cooperates with the system resource.", "start": 3509.16, "stop": 3511.3, "id": 860}, {"text": " Now, that's what you'd call a smart spectrum.", "start": 3511.56, "stop": 3513.56, "id": 861}, {"text": " This is KFNN, Ham Radio and More, your guest host today,", "start": 3513.56, "stop": 3520.3, "id": 862}, {"text": " John Moore, along with Nick Seuss, and our guest is Lyle Johnson,", "start": 3520.52, "stop": 3526.04, "id": 863}, {"text": " WA7GXD. If you'd like to join our conversation, I ask questions, and now is your", "start": 3526.22, "stop": 3533.18, "id": 864}, {"text": " chance to ask questions of one of the technological wizards of Ham Radio.", "start": 3533.18, "stop": 3537.46, "id": 865}, {"text": " You can call us at 230-2755, 230-2755,", "start": 3538.2599999999998, "stop": 3545.24, "id": 866}, {"text": " or 1-800-293-KFNN.", "start": 3545.56, "stop": 3549.46, "id": 867}, {"text": " So, Lyle, you've been doing some work with satellites,", "start": 3552.9, "stop": 3555.18, "id": 868}, {"text": " do you expect to continue in that?", "start": 3555.42, "stop": 3557.04, "id": 869}, {"text": " Yes, I do, John. It's something that has been my dream since I was a kid when I", "start": 3557.48, "stop": 3563.02, "id": 870}, {"text": " first heard of Sputnik.", "start": 3563.02, "stop": 3565.72, "id": 871}, {"text": " I was only seven years old, but I was aware that there was something really neat", "start": 3565.72, "stop": 3569.38, "id": 872}, {"text": " going on, and from the first OSCAR satellite in 1961 until the present, it was an", "start": 3569.38, "stop": 3575.7, "id": 873}, {"text": " area that I wanted to get involved in, and through the fortuitous circumstance of", "start": 3575.7, "stop": 3580.48, "id": 874}, {"text": " my being involved in packet radio, at a time when OSCAR-10 was nearly ready", "start": 3580.48, "stop": 3587.38, "id": 875}, {"text": " to be launched, which was in mid-83, I was able to get involved in the amateur", "start": 3587.38, "stop": 3592.8, "id": 876}, {"text": " satellite program from the standpoint of being a developer.", "start": 3592.8, "stop": 3596.08, "id": 877}, {"text": " And just one thing I'd like to touch on regarding satellites and the previous", "start": 3597.52, "stop": 3601.2, "id": 878}, {"text": " thing we were talking about in terms of greater station utilization, there", "start": 3601.2, "stop": 3605.08, "id": 879}, {"text": " are a number of stations now that are using the orbiting", "start": 3605.08, "stop": 3611.78, "id": 880}, {"text": " satellite resources we have for automated packet message forwarding.", "start": 3611.78, "stop": 3616.24, "id": 881}, {"text": " So it could well be that if you send a message from your packet station in", "start": 3616.24, "stop": 3620.74, "id": 882}, {"text": " Arizona to a station in Alaska or a station in Europe, that that message traffic", "start": 3620.74, "stop": 3625.34, "id": 883}, {"text": " may have actually been handled by an amateur satellite en route.", "start": 3625.34, "stop": 3628.06, "id": 884}, {"text": " And what I'm getting at here is just as packet radio enables you to communicate", "start": 3628.58, "stop": 3632.8, "id": 885}, {"text": " with people when they're not yet there through the means", "start": 3632.8, "stop": 3635.76, "id": 886}, {"text": " of sending mail to their station.", "start": 3635.76, "stop": 3637.28, "id": 887}, {"text": " So, in the amateur satellite world, we're beginning to leverage the ability to", "start": 3637.96, "stop": 3642.86, "id": 888}, {"text": " use the satellites by people that don't have satellite equipment.", "start": 3642.86, "stop": 3645.94, "id": 889}, {"text": " And that is through what we call these gateway stations.", "start": 3646.24, "stop": 3648.7, "id": 890}, {"text": " Packet is an example. There have been some examples where people have linked on a", "start": 3649.58, "stop": 3654.5, "id": 891}, {"text": " temporary testing kind of basis an FM repeater in a metropolitan", "start": 3654.5, "stop": 3658.22, "id": 892}, {"text": " area to a satellite station.", "start": 3658.22, "stop": 3659.88, "id": 893}, {"text": " So a person could actually just use their standard 2 meter FM handheld radio and", "start": 3660.3, "stop": 3665.42, "id": 894}, {"text": " talk to the satellite to a person in the other state or another country.", "start": 3665.42, "stop": 3668.74, "id": 895}, {"text": " Ah, now that is really slick.", "start": 3669.86, "stop": 3672.58, "id": 896}, {"text": " I think that's a lot of fun. I know I got a big thrill from talking to the space", "start": 3674.04, "stop": 3678.5, "id": 897}, {"text": " shuttle. That's my extent and the Mir.", "start": 3678.5, "stop": 3681.08, "id": 898}, {"text": " What do you think of having the packet bulletin board that seems to have been up", "start": 3682.22, "stop": 3687.06, "id": 899}, {"text": " there forever now on the Soviet space station?", "start": 3687.06, "stop": 3689.6, "id": 900}, {"text": " And I wonder how many people know about that.", "start": 3689.78, "stop": 3691.46, "id": 901}, {"text": " Yeah, it's interesting. There is in fact a small packet", "start": 3692.8599999999997, "stop": 3695.9, "id": 902}, {"text": " bulletin board station at Board Mir.", "start": 3695.9, "stop": 3697.44, "id": 903}, {"text": " For the last few years, most of the Mir cosmonauts have been hams or have been", "start": 3697.44, "stop": 3703.46, "id": 904}, {"text": " people that have managed to get a ham license before they were sent up to", "start": 3703.46, "stop": 3707.08, "id": 905}, {"text": " begin their journey in space.", "start": 3707.08, "stop": 3708.78, "id": 906}, {"text": " And the system that's up there is really a simple packet message board on, I", "start": 3711.22, "stop": 3716.06, "id": 907}, {"text": " believe it's a PACCOM TNC.", "start": 3716.06, "stop": 3717.6, "id": 908}, {"text": " And you can access that with 2 meter FM whenever Mir happens to be within range", "start": 3718.46, "stop": 3724.3, "id": 909}, {"text": " of your station and somebody else that's", "start": 3724.3, "stop": 3726.12, "id": 910}, {"text": " stronger than you isn't trying to talk to them.", "start": 3726.12, "stop": 3727.82, "id": 911}, {"text": " I don't remember the exact frequency myself. You might remember that. 14555.", "start": 3728.28, "stop": 3733.1, "id": 912}, {"text": " 14555. And I believe that's a simplex frequency.", "start": 3734.08, "stop": 3736.94, "id": 913}, {"text": " Yes, it is. And it's tough to get in, but you can do it. And sometimes they'll", "start": 3737.46, "stop": 3741.94, "id": 914}, {"text": " pop up on voice there. There was a lot of that during the coup", "start": 3741.94, "stop": 3745.54, "id": 915}, {"text": " in Moscow, as a matter of fact.", "start": 3745.54, "stop": 3747.22, "id": 916}, {"text": " Okay, we have Bob from Scottsdale. Let's see if we can do this", "start": 3748.06, "stop": 3752.64, "id": 917}, {"text": " right. Bob, you there?", "start": 3752.64, "stop": 3755.66, "id": 918}, {"text": " Yes, I am.", "start": 3755.84, "stop": 3756.46, "id": 919}, {"text": " Go ahead with your question.", "start": 3756.94, "stop": 3757.86, "id": 920}, {"text": " I was wondering what license requirements you needed to work with the packet", "start": 3758.6, "stop": 3762.36, "id": 921}, {"text": " radio. And also you mentioned a meeting that takes place and I", "start": 3762.36, "stop": 3767.4, "id": 922}, {"text": " didn't get the location of it.", "start": 3767.4, "stop": 3769.06, "id": 923}, {"text": " Okay, the license you need for packet, for the", "start": 3769.06, "stop": 3775.96, "id": 924}, {"text": " VHF packet, you need a codeless technician license will do it, which is the", "start": 3775.96, "stop": 3781.96, "id": 925}, {"text": " easiest license to get. It simply involves some written.", "start": 3781.96, "stop": 3787.36, "id": 926}]}